To be fed up of trades men and their lies

I had a funny conversation with some American friends recently. We live in an EU country and they had been renovating. At one point they'd hired an English window fitter and they were perplexed by his constant flakiness and failure to show up - he was always sending them messages about broken down vans, dead grandmothers etc etc.

They were astonished when I wryly told them that was standard British tradesman behaviour, and every one of those messages would have been a lie.

Rubbish. It was bad long before Brexit! You can't constantly blame Brexit for everything.

I think that technology has had an adverse effect in this area really. Go back to when I started in accountancy 40 years ago, we had a lot of "trades" clients, but they all had "someone" behind the scenes doing the admin, books, etc., usually the wife or a neighbour who did "a bit of admin". That meant the tradie himself just concentrated on doing the work and wasn't spending some of his day writing/posting quotes/invoices, trying (and often failing) to keep his own diary, etc. They'd have someone behind them keeping them on track, telling them what needed doing, ordering supplies, etc.

Now we have smart phones, tradies and their ilk are bombarded with adverts telling them how easy it would be to do their invoicing on a phone app, or internet banking, etc., and now they're having to juggle all that too, as they're being fed the narrative that they don't need anyone doing the admin/accounts as it's "so easy" to do it themselves! I'm sure it's part of why they never have the parts/materials they need and seem to spend half the day on the road going back and fro to suppliers etc!

We have our office burglar alarm fitted and maintained by an "old school" guy. He must be in his 70s now (or maybe even his 80s), but all he does is go out and install/replace/maintain domestic and small business burglar alarms - everything else is done by his wife (similar age). She manages his diary, sends out yearly reminders/invoices for the maintenance contracts, prepares his quotes, etc. Whenever we phone, she answers and books him in for an appointment/fitting etc. When he's here and we ask him to do something else (such as replacing a light fitting as he's a qualified electrician), he always tells us he'll get his wife to send us a quote - she does the ordering/pricing, etc. He whinges about her sometimes (in jest mostly), but I actually think he enjoys it as he can do the bit he likes, i.e. the electrical work, and she does all the organisation/management etc. He's never late and never misses an appointment!

This issue was discussed on the radio the other day. We have Brexit to thank for a lot of it. Total skill shortage in certain trades so the ones left are able to take complete advantage by being late/rude/charging a fortune. Good luck! I often think female owned companies or female only builders would do well. I know that is reversed sexism bla bla bla but women would feel more comfortable with them than being fobbed off by blokes constantly.

What other industry do people get away with being so unreliable and unprofessional?

Estate agency, much of the motor trade, most politicians - the list goes on

However we encounter many of these only occasionally whereas jobs need doing in homes all the time, so maybe we notice the lack of professionalism more?

This is one reason governments are keen on a ' cash less ' society I suppose , but they probably have ways of getting around this too with other accounts to pay the cash into or however they might get around that problem.

"It's interesting that you say this, as I do agree to an extent but I think a large part of the problems people experience is because non academic kids are automatically encouraged to go into trades and a lot of them struggle with organisation massively, they might get taken under the wing of a more experienced person early on via apprenticeships etc, but if the example that their employer sets early on is to take the piss, they then take that into when they become self employed. I've met trades who are good at the physical work but are terrible at the organisation, and have been taught bad habits around communication and quality etc - so the work often ends up shoddy because of those elements rather than ability. It's hard work being self employed and running your own business and I think it unfortunately goes 'you're not academic? Here is the physical side, here's the health and safety, here's a m accountant contact, off you go' when kids need more support on the 'running a business' side."

Hit the nail on the head here (pun not intended)

Many disorganised, non academic children/teens had no choice but to go into trades years ago. It was and still is a case of "x needs a labourer, you can start in the morning" Organisational skills are not something that comes naturally to a lot of people.

@ShinyHappyTits

And of course he wants paying in cash.

That's also becoming commonplace with them overtly telling you they'll "knock off the VAT" for cash, making it sound like they're doing you a favour, but in reality, it's even better for them to avoid the 20% income tax, 9% NIC, and, often, avoiding child maintenance payments!

On the (thankfully few) occasions we've need scaffolding, they've all been upfront in saying VAT free for cash, and these were for jobs of £2000 or so, so not peanuts. Same with a builder a couple of years ago for a £10k job. They're not even "nudge nudge wink wink" about it anymore - they're so open about tax fraud! Clearly don't think there's any risk of them being caught.

Same with car repair shops. We got two quotes for repairs after a neighbour wrote off our car. Two "proper" garages (not a bloke in his back yard/garage!) - both were bigger firms doing insurance jobs, and both were upfront in saying they'd knock off the VAT for cash if they could do it at a weekend!

Definitely agree with what you say. I think all kids should get taught the basics of running a business when at school, cash flow, budgeting, quoting, customer management etc. All these skills and more are essential for business but portable to other areas of life too. It shouldn't be the case that kids leaving school who WANT to be a trade or run their own business end up failing as they don't have some of the business basics (despite having numerous GCSEs etc).

Honestly it is maddening. What other industry do people get away with being so unreliable and unprofessional? We've had loads of people in different trades just not turn up when they have said they would. It was practically impossible to get a quote from a roofer. They literally just never called me back after saying they would until recently we finally got a company out (who charged a fortune). We were scammed by a plumber (which was lovely) but we've had a really decent recommendation from someone local who has been good, to be fair to him. The electrician didn't show up last week so I've decided to sack him off if he ever gets back in touch. Argh!

Try dealing with the French variety. A visit to take measurements and still no quote after five weeks.

Had this so many times. Infuriating!
Actually, I've found that those who come on recommendation often to be the worst.
I go through those sites like 'trusted tradesman' etc now, and have not had an issue since.

Oh god don't get me started. I got a highly recommended local builder round to look at replacing the kitchen units. Done he says, easy, I'll charge you my day rate. Obviously he starts and sucks his teeth because the units are flat packed because that's how they come. Then it's 'oh I didn't realize you aren't replacing the worktop (I told him), it will be very difficult. It's all very difficult' He's managed to misalign the oven cabinet and keeps banging on about how difficult it is. It's now taken him 5 days and the cost is more than the units. And of course he wants paying in cash.

Then I discover that one of the bathrooms is leaking, undermining the parquet floor. He gets his son round to fix the waste trap-that's £150 please. The leak is still there. 'Oh it's very difficult, we'll need to rip off all the tiles and replace, very difficult'

I will be getting someone else in to do the bathroom and agreeing a price with them in advance. And possibly getting some stress counseling.

It's interesting that you say this, as I do agree to an extent but I think a large part of the problems people experience is because non academic kids are automatically encouraged to go into trades and a lot of them struggle with organisation massively, they might get taken under the wing of a more experienced person early on via apprenticeships etc, but if the example that their employer sets early on is to take the piss, they then take that into when they become self employed. I've met trades who are good at the physical work but are terrible at the organisation, and have been taught bad habits around communication and quality etc - so the work often ends up shoddy because of those elements rather than ability. It's hard work being self employed and running your own business and I think it unfortunately goes 'you're not academic? Here is the physical side, here's the health and safety, here's a m accountant contact, off you go' when kids need more support on the 'running a business' side.

My theory is they’re all cokeheads. That’s what the last tradesman told me (pretending not to be one himself). They yap way too much, talk more than they work (if they do show up), and just exert this shitty male dominance. They’ve got a parasitic mentality, most tradesmen. I have these guys working behind my house (neighbour is finishing up an extension) and it’s like Lord of the Flies over there.
I had to access my alleyway, gently (I will add) moved the tradesmen’s two bikes blocking my access/gate to the communal alley, and suddenly I had a group of guys asking me what I was doing. Fucking accessing my communal alleyway from my own gate, is what. Instant aggro from these guys… always confrontational, tradesmen.

Funnily enough, we have a couple of highly regarded builder brothers (in their 50s) in our village. They're hopelessly disorganised and unreliable, but they're very well respected for the quality of work, and are very expensive, and always booked up months in advance. I think the appeal is that they are honest. They openly admit they're hopelessly disorganised. They never make "firm" appointments for quotes or starting a job etc. It's always "we'll pop round when we're passing" and they will, eventually, turn up for quotes etc. Then, when it comes to starting a big job, it's always, "well, we've got Mrs Smith's extension next which will take 2-3 months, then Mr Jone's re-pointing which will be a couple of weeks, so maybe back end of September". For smaller "fill in" jobs, they literally will just turn up as and when between the bigger jobs, whilst waiting for supplies or for other tradies etc. Villagers know not to bother with them if they want specific dates etc. They barely ever leave the village, always around if you drive around a bit, you'll find their vans somewhere! Probably ideal workmen for the oldies in the village who are nearly always around, so don't have to take time off work or make specific appointments around work, school, childcare or whatever. The reason we barely use them is that they never quote either - the bill is always for however long it took them, which is something I just can't fathom that people agree to - they're very vague. For a small bit of a roofing job we asked them to do once, they "quoted" "a thousand or two", and that was it, however much I asked for clarification and more exact pricing, they said it was the best they could say. They even do lots of decorating jobs, both inside and out which I find very strange as they're far more expensive than a typical decorator. So, I think, they just attract lots of repeat business, despite being expensive, just on the back of actually doing a good job eventually, and not lying or otherwise messing people about. The customers clearly are flexible and have the money!

Well you’re right, but 99% of plumbers are male so if you wrote them all off you’d be buggered.

I suppose when you try to give someone a chance and you get burnt it puts you off a bit.

One bad female plumber doesn’t mean they are all bad. I’ve had multiple bad male plumbers over the years, I don’t write off their whole sex for that.

In my experience women working in trades have to be better and work harder than their male counterparts because they are viewed as being less capable. The all women electrician team we use is bloody brilliant and fixed all sorts of problems created by male electricians over the years! I started hiring women on the basis that I found many male tradesmen to be patronising towards me, but then found that the women have also been more reliable overall.

I once had a painter who messaged at 8:30am saying "I just need to pick up some paint and I'll be over". He should have been there at 8am and we just needed white bog standard paint, but it was a huge job. 12 rooms to be painted and a £4k job.

By 11am, I had called and messaged and he said he was still in the queue.

He turned up at 12pm and I said "No thanks, we don't want to work with you, you're too unreliable".

He absolutely kicked off, called me all the names under the sun.

It's rude, how would they like it?
Some have obviously
got to much work, and are badly organised.

Don't say you'll do something or come at a certain time if you can't.

Actions speak louder than words.

It should be 50% of the price then they f*ck up the work and agreements.
If I was PM it would be my first law to pass.

I'm in the same boat,posting about some of the things that have happened to us would be like giving out my name and address.

Heartily agree!

I definitely do sandwiches every day when I have tradespeople in. Plus several cups of tea!

Usually people on tv doing renovations who miraculously have a full team on speed dial. I watched Escape to the Chateau and they always had roofers, plumbers, builders, diggers etc the minute they needed them (all mostly English too).