Junior doctors offered 22% pay rise

10-12 years if they have no sick leave. Maternity leave, pass all their exams first time and always work full time.

I'm reality it is 15-20 years or never for many doctors.

I would suggest their background and schooling is quite significant actually. Your point being they deserved a higher payrise because they are ' cleverer and studied for far longer'. The problem is we don't live in a perfect meritocracy. Kids from well off backgrounds and/or are privately educated have greater opportunities to be ' cleverer and study longer'. Other kids simply can't afford it or face additional barriers. They may well end up in professions like nursing or teaching.

I don't like blanket comparisons between professions either(especially without regard to grade or experience). They lack nuance and end up denigrating the valuable work done. Quite disingenuous too. A senior social worker in child protection will be managing an enormous amount of risk in comparison to an F1 for example (arguably much more senior docs too).

What does their background and type of school have to do with the work they are doing and trained to do?

The average doctor who has worked full time for 30 years is on £130k a year. By average - I mean average brain surgeon, average cardiothoracic surgeon, average physician. For 10-12 years of those 30 years - they are on less than £60k - despite literally being responsible for thousands of lives and studying outside of paid time to be good at their job.

The reality is the taxpayer can't afford this level of expertise, hence the rapid growth of private healthcare in the UK and exodus to other countries.

You can have PAs - that is what the government believes you deserve anyway

That’s great news. Bored senseless of MN posters asking “where’s the money coming from” every 3 seconds when the Tories spent 14 years giving it all to their mates and now Labour want to do something GOOD

So instead you want to pay a junior doctor less than what someone earns in a coffee shop?

The 22percent is over a few years too.

Is the size of the pension any good to someone in their mid 20's, who possibly has kids, is moved around the country with little say in where they're put, and needs to house, feed and clothe themself, pay the very high and not-optional exam and study fees, travel to work and work 48 hour weeks?

Doctors are also much more likely to be from higher socioeconomic groups and be privately educated. I don't think it's as simple as the other occupations listed being the preserve of relative thickos.

But don’t you realise that if you pay doctors more, you have less to pay the rest of the public sector workforce? Or did you think there was a magic money tree?

In order to do this fairly let us know the average salary of a doctor who has worked full time for 30 years? And what sort of pension the average doctor gets when they retire?

And doctors pay goes through the roof if they are able to become a consultant. And the pensions are utterly massive. Laughable to tell a private sector DC pension employee that doctors are underpaid.

I think everyone ought to be paid what they used to be. But they’re not. What makes doctors so special?

You seem to have a particular dislike of doctors.
Life isn't equal. A binman may work very hard but can be trained in a day. A doctor is much harder to replace. They are not equally valuable. The same principle applies to professional footballers. If anyone could do it there would be no need to pay them millions.

Don’t say it’s a 22% pay rise like it’s all coming in one go because it isn’t. This lumps together two years worth of pay rises and a top up from last year.

@JosieJasper I think you may need to read the thread title again. Spoiler alert - It's about junior doctors.

I wonder how many people on Mumsnet realise junior doctors salary is roughly less than £30k!
A deputy manager at Aldi is earning more!
I really wish the public would stop listening to the idiot government.

As a nurse I have to say, good it’s about time. Junior doctors work very hard and have an unbelievable amount of responsibility on their shoulders. They deserve it.

Actually, it's a thread about doctors.

Read any thread about teachers and you'll see the same. Why do they think they're so special ? Why do they think 'they have it harder than everyone else'. They don't. Thread about teachers. Is about teachers. Thread about doctors is about doctors. Not police (who need more pay), or nurses (who need more pay) or bankers (who don't).

I was referring to the reasoning as it gives the impression that it’s only junior doctors that have had the pay cut over the years. Not “whataboutary”, just stating facts. Which funnily enough, I’m allowed to do on a forum with a subject on public sector workers. Not like I went off on a tangent.

The fact that some posters can't even get heads around what pay restoration means kind of proves the point that doctors are cleverer than most.

Hence no one should be moaning about inequality. But rather equity

A person that spends 5-6 years studying to take the responsibility for other humans health is not the same and does not need the same thing as someone who does no such thing and works in a shop. Neither is better or worse but they are different and require different things. Including different renumeration

There's always going to be some difference in pay though, it can't be completely equal. Some skills are are in short supply, some harder and so less people able to gain them. These should absolutely be paid more, and this includes doctors. You can't have a doctor being the same as someone who works in a shop or restaurant.

I think they as deserve to be PAID THE SAMR AS THEY USED TO BE. None of this is a pay rise, it's just pay restoration, or at least a start.

Doctor starting salary £32,800
PA starting salary £45,000
Aldi Graduate (3 yr degree) £42,000

Want a doctor. Pay them.

Fair enough if you think that doctors deserve to be paid more because they are "cleverer". But you can't think that and moan about inequality.

@Blackbirdinfinity oh, and to correct your facts. Must doctors would love the conditions and pay that was around when they applied. But during the 6-7 years it takes to apply and qualify the NHS has been underfunded and conditions are now dire. And pay has been cut by 27%.

So yes, give them the same as what existed when they applied. Excellent idea.