Junior doctors offered 22% pay rise

Totally agree about the winter fuel. There are pensioners living on the estate I live on who are far wealthier than I could dream of being, some with Mercedes on their driveways, two or three holidays abroad a year, getting winter fuel allowance. It was never right. It must go to the most vulnerable.

She is mid 20s, too old to be influenced by a mum.

There is a huge shortage of training places, so competition is growing year on year, so there is a choice to be made. Work hard and study hard so you get to the next stage. Or work hard and play hard and take your chances, accepting that you may not be able to find a job as a doctor in the UK.

Peers are already boasting on social media that they are sitting and passing the exams they need to be considered for specialist training. DD plans to take a less demanding job for a year rather than try to burn the candle both ends. Very much the right decision for her. But very likely that this job will have to be in Australia as so many of these junior jobs in the UK are now taken by physician associates.

More money but no jobs is not the solution junior doctors were asking fir.

Good! We need to retain our talented junior doctors or else we are all screwed.

they’ve announced they are going to make cuts within the NHS. Also scrapping some stupid schemes and cutting back on winter fuel payments to the elderly. It was getting tiring hearing very rich relatives gloat that they were getting money to heat their homes. Definitely should be means tested.

Don’t be ridiculous

private sector workers have options to find another employer- whereas doctors don’t have several NHS to choose from. Unless we want to stop them all leaving the NHS their pay needed to be increased

im a private worker and I certainly didn’t have 15 years of no wage growth in real terms

Well done the government, previous offers were ridiculous and if we want to have NHS going thats what needs to be done

They can cut money somewhere else

That is private practice. Not the same as NHS Consultant pay. Only a third of Consultants do private practice and only 1 in 10 do a significant enough amount to earn more than £10k. Mostly those with loyalty to the NHS. That generation is retiring. Consultant pay has recently been increased after years of stagnation. It is still more attractive to work in other countries so quite a few have left and are planning to go.

Someone upthread asked if £130k is not enough - that is after 19 years as a Consultant. It is far far lower than comparable professions and than other countries pay. Also lower adjusted for inflation than what it was in 2005 for example

They can train to become doctors. Open to everyone. Just get the grades, compete for entry, complete med school and work as a trainee for 8-10 years. Anyone can do it really

She's in her 20s based on your description and you think she should drop fun activities in order to work full time and then go home and study for exams? I can understand that there are some young people who are incredibly driven and desperately want to do everything necessary to achieve their dream to qualify as doctors. As a parent, I'd of course be proud and supportive, but very concerned about them. I cannot get my head around actively encouraging your child to put themselves through that though.

Give them a chance! They’ve been in power less than a month.

A really good point. DD is a natural work hard play hard and is pretty resilient.

However given the shortage of training places she really ought to be dropping the "play" and focussing on preparing for the exams. She lost a huge chunk of social life in the middle of her University years to lockdown. As it turns out she loves where she is living and has made tons of friends. Being happy and balanced will make her a better doctor, but may mean she loses the chance to continue her career in the UK as others really are going home after a long shift to study for the next set of exams. I also suspect she will want to stay where she is, though given the shortage of either locum/CTF job and training positions, she really needs to keep moving to where the work is.

More pay does not help when there are not enough jobs.

I’m pleased that this govt has moved quickly to bring a resolution to junior doctors poor pay. There are a few posters on here who obviously haven’t got a clue. Medical students have to obtain the top grades at A level to then try and obtain a place on a very competitive university course. The course is then long, arduous and rigorous both clinically and theoretically.
Newly qualified doctors have huge responsibilities from the start. Generally they are the first port of call to review sick and deteriorating patients.
They have been massively underpaid. I’m a bank nurse on the lowest possible grade, doing a basic role and I earn more than a first year junior doctor. I just don’t understand how the pay has got this bad. Most NHS health professionals are on the agenda for change pay scale. If newly qualified doctors were on this they would have to be near to the top due to their role and responsibilities. It is totally galling that Physician’s Associates are paid far more without the training and knowledge doctors require. They cannot prescribe, order X Rays and have to ask JDs to do this. They also work social hours and often get the training junior doctors should be getting but aren’t.
A substantial pay rise is not just that - it’s about pay restoration due to the massive underpayment over the years.
As for someone saying they shouldn’t be able to strike or work elsewhere, well! - just pay them a decent salary commensurate with the very skilled and difficult role they have and they then they won’t need to.
I speak as a mother of a DC who is a junior doctor and have witnessed everything they have been through, most of it hellish.

It’s a good start. However, conditions at work should be addressed in hospital. Rest rooms have been removed, staff canteen serves beige, unhealthy food, equipment is outdated and don’t start me on the IT antiquated systems. The workload for GPs is unsustainable. Patients need to remember that the doctor’s job doesn’t finish with seeing the patients. There are all the referrals and admin tasks to be seen to plus evidence that the doctors have continued to learn and reflect with all the attendant tick box exercises. Patient demands can often be totally unreasonable - they don’t value what they consider to be ‘free’. Rant over.

I think if you read the chain in context it's easy to see where the misunderstanding has come from as it's not clear to me. I'm glad we are all on the same page though!

Increasing pay for public sector workers does not impact inflation in the same way as wage rises in the private sector - because it doesn't impact prices. Those doctors will now pay tax on the pay, spend that money - being taxed when they do creating more income elsewhere in the economy which is then taxed. Government finances do not work like a household where you have a certain amount to spend. It works much more like a business where you can create money when you invest in the right things

It's good doctors are getting some of the pay that has been taken off them back. I am pretty pissed off that as a teacher I am only being offered 5.5%. our pay has also fallen in real terms by about a quarter. Other workers including nurses etc should also not be forgotten.

I didn’t say that at all. I was making a point about stress and burnout!

They will find it because it is essential to pay our doctors a fairer wage. Perhaps if millions hadn't been lost in fraud, dodgy PPE contracts and mates rates under the Tories we wouldn't be in this mess

I'm sure we are all broadly supportive of each other's opinions here - my request for a source was in response to @Bignanna comment, which seemed to suggest that a pay rise wasn't worth it for GPs because it would have no effect. I think most people would say that pay does make a difference to how you internalise the pressures of your job (whatever that is!).

Also one of the highest suicide rates and a lot getting to that magical end goal in their 40s only to find themselves single, childless and devoid of friends or hobbies because they spent their 20s and 30s being driven like slaves with zero respect for their health or life outside work. Not much point retiring rich if you have nothing to retire to.

Do you mean lawyers and courts then upheld the law that Parliament itself set?

Perhaps the Home Office should operate within the law or Parliament should change the law?

Novel i know.

Many of us are full-time NHS consultants who have never done a single day’s private work. The lure of private medicine does not apply to everyone. I am a clinician, not a business person and cannot imagine charging that rate!

I don’t know if this deal will be accepted so people should not get too excited. Doctors in training that I follow on Twitter are saying not to accept the offer.

@TooBigForMyBoots

The previous government also used to use aeroplanes to deport people. I know that because when they used to try and deport murderers and rapists, lefties used to get in a terrible tizzy and prevent the flights from leaving.

You think it isn’t true? I’ve heard GPs interviewed about this numerous times in the media and burnout and stress are common reasons! I’m sure you can find this out by googling!

Freezing the pay of 650 MP’s is not going to cover the pay rise of approx 75k junior doctors

Sorry, I might have misinterpreted your comment (I wasn't the original person you were responding to and therefore missed any previous context so will read further back)...I was trying to show that GPs are often reported to be the most likely to suffer burnout amongst medical professionals. I'm a mature medical student and have many unhappy GP friends so it's close to my heart.

Completely and utterly not true. Pharmacist and nurse prescribers are able to prescribe anything within the remit of their practice including chemotherapy. They tend to do a better job than their medic counterparts as well!

Also in addition to my initial post, I do not begrudge the junior doctors receiving a pay rise - it is more than deserved! I do believe that other health care professionals that have taken on what originally was doctors work load also need to be sufficiently compensated.