Junior doctors offered 22% pay rise

@bakebeans you know that doctor who comes to see you at 2am because the nurses bleeped them as you are getting sicker ? That's an F1. You know that doctor who prescribes your child's pain relief or antibiotic in A&E ? That's an F1.

They are v much fully qualified, but they are very sensible and will ask if even slightly unsure (as will all medical staff). They are clever enough to know nurses know a lot of stuff as they have the luxury of being on a ward for more than 4 months at a time.
Yes a senior doctor is nominally supervising them, but this usually means they glance at the treatment plan.

By F2 they are completely unsupervised and could be delivering your baby at 2am. For £18 an hour.

Pensions do not pay rent or bills now.

And did you take into account the vast pensions accrued by public sector employees?

And did you take into account the vast pensions accrued by public sector employees?

F1s are fully trained doctors, sure they aren't trained in a speciality on their first day working as a qualified doctor (who is?), but they are fully functioning members of the team who have a lot of responsibility from the outset.

The Armed Forces comparison is boring. When i was in the pay wasn't great to start but accommodation was heavily subsidised, my pay was topped up with GYHP, being away from home station etc. Someone on deployment gets enhanced pay, we all saved it and it was a fair chunk. You can also join with zero qualifications, and your responsibilities, as in any job, increase over time and experience. A better comparison would be a military doctor I guess- same qualification and investment in training; they're on substantially more than their NHS counterparts and in reality the hours actually worked and conditions when in this country are better, they also get cheap accommodation for their families etc. Junior doctors have to move every 6 months and don't get accommodation sorted etc.

This post is embarrassing. It shows you have no idea whatsoever what junior doctors do.

Indeed. Except Humanities posts are decreasing and staff are being made redundant. He was one of 200 applicants for a substantive post this year. He moved 240 miles for it.

He works 48 hour weeks and sometimes more with teaching and research commitments. That is the only way to publish a monograph nowadays. The only chance of a job in the present climate is to have published or been accepted by a top publisher with work assessed as 4*.

44 IB points. Three year first degree (1st class, Oxford) one year Masters (Distinction), PhD in three years (Cambridge). 1 year post doc post.

I get the impression you think other careers just happen with no personal input or sacrifice.

And did you take into account the vast pensions accrued by public sector employees?

Indeed. Except Humanities posts are decreasing and staff are being made redundant. He was one of 200 applicants for a substantive post this year. He moved 240 miles for it.

He works 48 hour weeks and sometimes more with teaching and research commitments. That is the only way to publish a monograph nowadays. The only chance of a job in the present climate is to have published or been accepted by a top publisher with work assessed as 4*.

44 IB points. Three year first degree (1st class, Oxford) one year Masters (Distinction), PhD in three years (Cambridge). 1 year post doc post.

I get the impression you think other careers just happen with no personal input or sacrifice.

Also they already had payrises. With the exception of a period in covid private sector payrises were above public sector for the decade 2013-2022. It’s only in the past year or so that public sector have had some bigger rises. It’s really just catching public sector up after many years of low rises/wage stagnation.

I looked up the monthly rates and did a rough calculation and on average someone earning 25k in 2014 would now earn ~36k in private sector vs 32.5k in public sector. So someone in private sector is earning over 10% more at this point on average.

Indeed. Except Humanities posts are decreasing and staff are being made redundant. He was one of 200 applicants for a substantive post this year. He moved 240 miles for it.

He works 48 hour weeks and sometimes more with teaching and research commitments. That is the only way to publish a monograph nowadays. The only chance of a job in the present climate is to have published or been accepted by a top publisher with work assessed as 4*.

44 IB points. Three year first degree (1st class, Oxford) one year Masters (Distinction), PhD in three years (Cambridge). 1 year post doc post.

I get the impression you think other careers just happen with no personal input or sacrifice.

Indeed. Except Humanities posts are decreasing and staff are being made redundant. He was one of 200 applicants for a substantive post this year. He moved 240 miles for it.

He works 48 hour weeks and sometimes more with teaching and research commitments. That is the only way to publish a monograph nowadays. The only chance of a job in the present climate is to have published or been accepted by a top publisher with work assessed as 4*.

44 IB points. Three year first degree (1st class, Oxford) one year Masters (Distinction), PhD in three years (Cambridge). 1 year post doc post.

I get the impression you think other careers just happen with no personal input or sacrifice.

Your son could apply for posts of his choosing, in locations of his choosing, know where he's going with adequate time to find suitable accomodation, and not have to work 48 hour weeks including nights and weekends. After 6 years of uni and grafting to stay in the top 10% of her (very bright) cohort, her job location will be allocated by a random number generator. She'll then work 48 hour weeks, moving around every 4 months.....

But we’ve been underpaying the private sector too. Everyone has been suffering. Did you think the cost of living crisis is limited to public sector employees? Of course it isn’t.

Also they already had payrises. With the exception of a period in covid private sector payrises were above public sector for the decade 2013-2022. It’s only in the past year or so that public sector have had some bigger rises. It’s really just catching public sector up after many years of low rises/wage stagnation.

I looked up the monthly rates and did a rough calculation and on average someone earning 25k in 2014 would now earn ~36k in private sector vs 32.5k in public sector. So someone in private sector is earning over 10% more at this point on average.

The difficulty with the medical profession is that they think they are different from the rest of us. They aren't. They are no more skilled or qualified than the other professions: accountancy, law, architecture, etc.

😂😂😂😂

@mumsneedwine how interesting that doctors qualifying today will retire at 67+. Like everyone else I think, including my 63 year old husband.

My DS has a PhD and as an early career academic has also to pay his rent and utility bills. Just as DH had to as a Pupil when he earnt peanuts.

The difficulty with the medical profession is that they think they are different from the rest of us. They aren't. They are no more skilled or qualified than the other professions: accountancy, law, architecture, etc. Except that if average earnings over a lifetime were assessed, the doctors overall would probably earn more. The Parners at PwC and magic circle law firms, on £500k plus are the exception rather than the rule.

The biggest difference I see is that the Dr's and other NHS staff never stop whingeing about their pay and conditions (their employer) to stakeholders including patients. If other professions were to be as rude to clients on a regular basis or were to bad mouth their employer they would be swiftly dismissed.

The entire culture of the NHs has become unacceptable.

F1s are fully trained doctors, sure they aren't trained in a speciality on their first day working as a qualified doctor (who is?), but they are fully functioning members of the team who have a lot of responsibility from the outset.

The Armed Forces comparison is boring. When i was in the pay wasn't great to start but accommodation was heavily subsidised, my pay was topped up with GYHP, being away from home station etc. Someone on deployment gets enhanced pay, we all saved it and it was a fair chunk. You can also join with zero qualifications, and your responsibilities, as in any job, increase over time and experience. A better comparison would be a military doctor I guess- same qualification and investment in training; they're on substantially more than their NHS counterparts and in reality the hours actually worked and conditions when in this country are better, they also get cheap accommodation for their families etc. Junior doctors have to move every 6 months and don't get accommodation sorted etc.

And mismanagement of resources and bizarre bureaucracy.