DC’s teacher didn’t go to university.

Just because someone doesn't have a PGCE doesn't mean they don't have any degree, nor other qualifications. Qualifications alone do not make a good teacher.

A teacher who isn't getting results should indeed be held accountable, but that can happen as much with fully qualified PGCE-holding teachers as those without. And what counts as "results"? A teacher who gets a student from a 2 to a 5 at GCSE may be a better teacher than one who has very able students who were always likely to get 8s and 9s across the board anyway.

@3CustardCreams

No you might not need a degree in teaching to teach. But you do need at least a basic bachelors degree in the subject you are teaching. Otherwise what’s the difference between you and your pupil just reading cliff/York notes.
But someone with a PhD in medieval history will be noted more knowledgeable on Tudor England or WWII than anyone else. It's not their topic.

A law graduate may teach English or A maths graduate may end up teaching computer science or chemistry. Again not their subject.

So is the teacher 18 then?

I'm assuming they are an adult with years of experience teaching.

Do you really not think people learn in any way other than at university?

Do you really think that someone having spent 3 years learning media history will make a better modern history teacher than someone passionate about modern history who has been working as a teacher for years?

Yup - I'm not going to cut my salary in half and double the stress just to teach (and I'm not even on a high wage for the industry I work in - but I don't like managing people so have no mgmt responsibilities - but that's a whole other thread!).

It's not even like the pension are massively better now that they've been cut and 'revalued'. 'Gold plated pensions' - something worthless made to look nice and shiny.

Yes, this is the issue with subjects like CS - you can earn much more in industry.

I concur - as a Dr myself (and PGCE holder), what a PhD demonstrates is that you can pretty much teach yourself any subject to an expert level of depth.

This means PhD holders often make excellent HE/FE lecturers/teachers (but some pedagogy knowledge is still required - i.e. through a PGCE or the HEA programme), not so much at secondary/primary level where rote learning is favoured/required by the curriculum versus critical thinking skills.

I would say at secondary and primary level, a PhD is almost useless career wise unless one is also snr management and in charge of policy. But lots of people do a PhD as a personal challenge, rather than for career advancement (as did I).

My kids school has has a CS vacancy advertised for three years.

I could teach it but:

a: It's an academy
b: Not for a measly 30k

A friend works at a top public school - he does have a PGCE (and a load of other postgraduate qualifications.) Some of his colleagues have PGCEs. Some have qualifications like PTLLS/DTLLS (which I think has now been updated.) Several have PhDs.

Having a PhD means you know a lot about a particular subject - it doesn't make you a good teacher. I'm sure some are good teachers, but it's a different skill. Even with a PGCE, you might only be an okay teacher. Most of us will have been at schools with a variety of teachers with similar qualifications, and some will have made lessons enjoyable and you really learnt, and others covered all the syllabus but it wasn't inspiring at all, it was just somethingyou hot through. (And one couldn't even engage and control a class full of top set motivated girls.) One of the best teachers I knew wasn't actually a teacher - or she may have been, I don't know her actual CV. But she worked at the museum, and was brilliant at telling us about Romans or chalk downland wildflowers or hawks or Victorian life. I don't think any amount of qualifications can make you into that sort of teacher, just as an MBA doesn't make you a great manager - you can learn tactics and strategies and be better than you were without qualifications, but it doesn't make you great.

A fool and their money! I’m happy to keep the qualified teachers in the state sector.

You don't still don't seem to understand that teachers don't need a degree, despite saying that you were surprised that they weren't needed.

It would be more of an issue if your daughter was studying at uni, let's say engineering, by a lecturer with no degree/masters/phd or in a different subject.

What happens if your daughters results decline- how are you going to tell that its the teacher or your daughters motivation? Blaming 1 teacher for your daughter not getting the grades because they don't have a degree is just petty. You said yourself that you've heard great feedback from other parents.

Forget the watch and wait. You clearly have an issue about it, speak to the head and see what they say. Why don't you ask how many of their teaching staff have degrees? Would you rather your daughter be taught by a newly qualified teacher with little experience (not slating newly qualified teachers!), instead of the current teacher that's been there years with great results/feedback?

It sounds like you are being a right plumbus about this. If the teacher is achieving good pupil academic results, there is really no issue. They have qualifications to a level higher than they will need to teach and sounds like that have excellent feedback.

Would you ever cop on.

I don't think I remember much from my degree, and none of it would be relevant to teaching. Yet you'd prefer me to a known good teacher because I can wave an old piece of paper at you? Seems silly to me.

If she were teaching at a university, I can see why a relevant degree would be needed to cover more in-depth topics. Teaching lower levels might benefit from a degree for teaching sciences or maths at A level, but not for GCSE and below, and not for a topic like English. Being able to inspire and teach the actual curriculum to kids is what matters.

Much earlier still, many women became teachers, totally untrained, during WWII to fill gaps left when men joined up. They were, during the '60s, awarded qualified by experience status if they were still teaching and I knew one or two who were fantastic teachers.

A degree wasn't a requirement in the 70s/early 80s I think so some may still be teaching if they were among the last to go to a College of Education, as I did. The BEd was just starting when I qualified but I went on to do an OU degree as did many others.
The obsession with a degree on this site is odd, in my experience both as a pupil and a teacher I've met people with excellent degrees who couldn't teach for toffee, often they were incapable of understanding why others were not as conversant with their subject as they were themselves!

Teachers used to be trained for three years in teacher training colleges and were awarded Certificate in Education. In the late 60s students could opt to do a four year BEd degree. I’m not sure when but eventually teachers had to have a degree.

My Grandma was a primary school teacher for well over 30 years and she also didn’t go to university. It wasn’t a requirement back in the 60s, she went to a teacher training college instead. She was a wonderful and much loved teacher and did a fantastic job.

I don’t want to sound like a twat here but you only need a 2:2 to do most PGCEs so whilst the majority of teachers will have a degree, many probably have a lower second class which as a lecturer seeing the quality of work from 2:2 students… I won’t go on.

It isn’t my mum was a high school teacher of history in the 70s before I was born and she did RS and for around a term taught German of which she can’t speak a single word! My Dad was primarily history A level (his degree) and also did philosophy and classical civilisation

getting a computer science teacher is rare so it is often other teachers who step it it is an underpaid profession particularly if you have a transferable skill set

the skill is more the ability to teach and transfer over the information than knowing the information itself and that is something you don’t get from a university degree

I don’t think that’s recent….it was happening when mine were at school….they are early 30s now….teachers taught a variety of subjects

No you might not need a degree in teaching to teach. But you do need at least a basic bachelors degree in the subject you are teaching. Otherwise what’s the difference between you and your pupil just reading cliff/York notes. The student can do that themselves without a teacher if that’s the level of knowledge on the topic they’re bringing to the classroom.

As an apprenticeship tutor/adult education teacher, I do not have a teaching degree. What I do have though, is very specialist knowledge, a teaching qualification (not degree level), safeguarding qualifications and the right personality, knowledge and skills to be able to tailor to individual needs and work with my pupils to help them secure the education they deserve to attain. You absolutely don't need a degree to teach any longer.

It's a recommendation rather than a legal requirement.

This is also why Ph.Ds aren't 'taught' degrees as there is nothing higher than a Ph.D.