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DC’s teacher didn’t go to university.

615 replies

RabbitWedge · 28/07/2024 17:38

Two of my DC’s are at the same secondary private school. It’s a small private school, not a well known name, but costs a small fortune nonetheless. An interaction with one of my DC’s English teachers at the end of term has made me feel uncomfortable.

‘Mrs Jones’ has worked at the school for a number of years. She is a very well liked English teacher; the children love her and she’s given high praise on the parents WhatsApp group. At the end of term, I was having a casual chit chat with ‘Mrs Jones’ and the topic of university came up. I asked ‘Mrs Jones’ where she went to university, and she stated that she had not gone and didn’t have a degree. I must have looked very taken aback, as she quickly added that she had an impeccable educational record (apparently all A’s and A*’s), she’d been tutoring for a number of years and working as a TA, at which point the school promoted her to teach English. I didn’t ask for this explanation, but she perhaps felt the need to justify her teaching.

I was under the impression that all teachers had to have degrees at the very least, and whilst I don’t doubt her popularity and delivery of her English lessons, I am concerned. I was aware that teachers in the private system didn’t need to be qualified teachers, but to not even have attended university seems unsuitable.

Would you raise this with the school in my position?

OP posts:
Pythag · 28/07/2024 18:59

RabbitWedge · 28/07/2024 17:38

Two of my DC’s are at the same secondary private school. It’s a small private school, not a well known name, but costs a small fortune nonetheless. An interaction with one of my DC’s English teachers at the end of term has made me feel uncomfortable.

‘Mrs Jones’ has worked at the school for a number of years. She is a very well liked English teacher; the children love her and she’s given high praise on the parents WhatsApp group. At the end of term, I was having a casual chit chat with ‘Mrs Jones’ and the topic of university came up. I asked ‘Mrs Jones’ where she went to university, and she stated that she had not gone and didn’t have a degree. I must have looked very taken aback, as she quickly added that she had an impeccable educational record (apparently all A’s and A*’s), she’d been tutoring for a number of years and working as a TA, at which point the school promoted her to teach English. I didn’t ask for this explanation, but she perhaps felt the need to justify her teaching.

I was under the impression that all teachers had to have degrees at the very least, and whilst I don’t doubt her popularity and delivery of her English lessons, I am concerned. I was aware that teachers in the private system didn’t need to be qualified teachers, but to not even have attended university seems unsuitable.

Would you raise this with the school in my position?

If you don’t doubt the delivery of her lessons, what are you actually worried about? Either her teaching is fine, in which case be happy, or it isn’t. University is neither here nor there.

MrsKeats · 28/07/2024 18:59

This is why am I am always amazed that people automatically think that a private education is superior.
My daughter's science teacher in a state school has a phd.

YellowAsteroid · 28/07/2024 18:59

Well, according to this thread over in the Higher Education forum

Some Universities will go bust

teachers don't need to have degrees. Indeed, according to some posters there, only about 5% of the population should have degrees. I don't happen to agree. Our children should be educated by the best-educated that schools can employ.

Page 15 | Some universities will go bust | Mumsnet

Reported in the Times today. It must be so worrying for students joining or returning in September/October. My question is around the regulator, who...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/higher_education/5128187-some-universities-will-go-bust?reply=137118929

noctilucentcloud · 28/07/2024 18:58

OhcantthInkofaname · 28/07/2024 18:17

To all the posters on here declaring that having a university degree doesn't matter would be okay with your GP not having a degree? Or your nurse? Psychologist? Mechanical Engineer (who designs bridges)?
The education your children get isn't any less important.
How about the one particular piece of knowledge that your child needs won't be taught because the teacher doesn't know it.

That's different though. All those professions need thorough in depth subject specific knowledge that you can't get until university level, and for several of them subsequent professional or postdoctoral training. To take a clinical psychologist as an example, they need a PhD, however, a counsellor doesn't. Similarly a mechanical or structural engineer designing bridges needs a degree, more practical engineers don't.

A degree doesn't necessarily mean you're a good teacher, it gives you subject knowledge but that can be gained in other ways. I'd also say that getting onto a secondary pgce requires a 2:2 as a minimum and for eg science with chemistry that over half your degree had chemistry as a major component. That science pgce would allow you to teach biology and physics too - they're very different subjects!

OP I think the things to focus on are, are they a good teacher, are the children progressing, and does the school get good pass marks in English exams? If the answers to those are yes, then I don't think you need to worry.

FuzzyStripes · 28/07/2024 18:57

Private schools aren’t dictated to in the same way as state schools regarding essential attributes and qualifications. Some private schools get better academic results than some state schools but it’s not a given.

A degree or formal education doesn’t mean someone knows a subject better than someone who does have qualifications. It also doesn’t mean they are capable of teaching.

Bill Gates didn’t have a degree but I’m sure he was as capable as many computing graduates.

greengreyblue · 28/07/2024 18:55

TAs in private school are not paid any more either! Just what is the extortionate fee for??

3CustardCreams · 28/07/2024 18:54

If I was a well qualified and competent teacher (I’m not) - I would choose to work in state schools simply for the gold plated pension. Private school teachers do not get that pension. Lord knows what standards they are held to. Money doesn’t always get you the best.

TheRainItRaineth · 28/07/2024 18:54

absquatulize · 28/07/2024 18:50

What about any skills a classroom teacher needs?

As everyone here keeps saying, apparently you can pick those up on the job, just as this non-degree qualified person seems to have done.

Getonwitit · 28/07/2024 18:52

Having worked with many teachers who have had degree's i can assure you that a degree is not the be all and end all. A degree does not make a good teacher. In fact too many of them couldn't tell there arse from their elbow.
When i was at school very few of the teaching staff had degree's but they were first class teachers at one of the best state schools in the country. In fact i our Latin teacher was the only one i remember talking about his time at Oxford ( he was sent home from Oxford for half a term because he led others astray)

IsThePopeCatholic · 28/07/2024 18:52

Private schools are businesses, so will always go for maximum profit and minimum spend. Your Mrs Jones is probably as cheap as chips.

ineedtogwtoutbeforeitatoohot · 28/07/2024 18:51

So what would you gain from complaining ? Sacking her or sending her to university ? Give over

Sugargliderwombat · 28/07/2024 18:51

My current ta (mainstream) was a teacher in a very fancy school. She's fab and I'd want her teaching my child, but yes the parents paying tens of thousands for their child to go there were blissfully unaware.

Lilacapples · 28/07/2024 18:50

RabbitWedge · 28/07/2024 17:38

Two of my DC’s are at the same secondary private school. It’s a small private school, not a well known name, but costs a small fortune nonetheless. An interaction with one of my DC’s English teachers at the end of term has made me feel uncomfortable.

‘Mrs Jones’ has worked at the school for a number of years. She is a very well liked English teacher; the children love her and she’s given high praise on the parents WhatsApp group. At the end of term, I was having a casual chit chat with ‘Mrs Jones’ and the topic of university came up. I asked ‘Mrs Jones’ where she went to university, and she stated that she had not gone and didn’t have a degree. I must have looked very taken aback, as she quickly added that she had an impeccable educational record (apparently all A’s and A*’s), she’d been tutoring for a number of years and working as a TA, at which point the school promoted her to teach English. I didn’t ask for this explanation, but she perhaps felt the need to justify her teaching.

I was under the impression that all teachers had to have degrees at the very least, and whilst I don’t doubt her popularity and delivery of her English lessons, I am concerned. I was aware that teachers in the private system didn’t need to be qualified teachers, but to not even have attended university seems unsuitable.

Would you raise this with the school in my position?

Of course you can’t raise it with the school. You’d think as you’ve sent your children private that you’d already know teachers in private schools don’t need a degree 🙄

absquatulize · 28/07/2024 18:50

TheRainItRaineth · 28/07/2024 18:47

Personally, I think it shows that you have a deep grasp of your subject, that you are able to research independently with ease (eg if the curriculum has something in it that isn't your specialism), that you are capable of working alone and have a strong work ethic. It also shows that you are highly intelligent. I would prefer someone with these evidenced qualities over someone without them.

What about any skills a classroom teacher needs?

sendismylife · 28/07/2024 18:49

Since academies, the only member of staff in an academy (Ie most secondary schools) who has to be a qualified teacher is the SENCO. It’s the marketisation of education - the academy chain bosses can cream off more money if they are paying unqualified teacher rates.

coolkatt · 28/07/2024 18:49

My degree means jackshit in my
Chosen career. The snobbery in this post is gross. This teacher is clearly doing a good job that u all
Think so highly of her. Would u rather someone crap takes over her post cos he literally has an A4 piece of paper that in this day and age are ten a penny?
Honestly I really wonder what you think the school will do and should do? Literally smh.

Differentstarts · 28/07/2024 18:49

You said she's a good teacher so why do you care if she spent 3 years getting pissed every night as a teenager in uni or not. You know a lot of teachers don't have an actual degree in teaching and just do a 9 month post graduate degree. Would you trust someone with a degree in fashion design more to teach your child.

ilovesooty · 28/07/2024 18:48

ToniGreen · 28/07/2024 17:44

Our Deputy PM didnt even get a GCSE.

Why is that relevant?

TheRainItRaineth · 28/07/2024 18:48

I don't know why people keep saying that state school teachers need a degree. Academies can and do employ anyone they like. That's 80% of the state sector.

Daisymay2 · 28/07/2024 18:48

DH went to grammar school and was taught A level Chemistry by a teacher with a degree in Music. DH got an A.

TheRainItRaineth · 28/07/2024 18:47

absquatulize · 28/07/2024 18:03

How does spending 3+ years doing research make you a good teacher?

Personally, I think it shows that you have a deep grasp of your subject, that you are able to research independently with ease (eg if the curriculum has something in it that isn't your specialism), that you are capable of working alone and have a strong work ethic. It also shows that you are highly intelligent. I would prefer someone with these evidenced qualities over someone without them.

amigafan2003 · 28/07/2024 18:47

Hayliebells · 28/07/2024 18:45

No there isn't, but in the state sector you at least need a degree. Those without degrees aren't called teachers, but they can be cover supervisors, who may well do a bit of teaching.

Not in an academy. They set their own entry criteria.

Hayliebells · 28/07/2024 18:45

amigafan2003 · 28/07/2024 18:43

No requirement in the state sector either. Lots of "unqualified" teachers about.

Edited

No there isn't, but in the state sector you at least need a degree. Those without degrees aren't called teachers, but they can be cover supervisors, who may well do a bit of teaching.

RawBloomers · 28/07/2024 18:45

If you are concerned that she isn’t teaching well, then raising it with the school is a reasonable thing to do.

Required qualifications (including degrees in an area not focused on the subject being taught) can do a lot to raise standards across the board. And in some subjects, especially technical ones, they are particularly effective at doing this. But on an individual basis, a good teacher isn’t made so by their qualifications. There are plenty of qualified teachers who still aren’t very good at teaching and plenty of individuals who can be good teachers without studying education or the subject they teach at university.

Mulhollandmagoo · 28/07/2024 18:45

Toetouchingtitties · 28/07/2024 17:44

I don’t get this ‘need a degree to teach’ bullshit. You can get some very capable individuals who can teach without one. If they are getting good results, what’s the issue?

I agree!!!! If she's a great teacher and gets great results then I fail to see the issue, there is no degree that can equip you to engage a classroom full of teenagers to learn.

There are many reasons why people who would have otherwise been incredible teachers didn't go to university, and they are given a strict curriculum to teach from anyway, adding to the fact that in state schools currently teachers teach subjects that aren't their specialty, including core subjects, you could argue the degree doesn't help them that much anyway.

Teachers not having degrees could easily be the answer to the current recruitment crisis for teachers.