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DC’s teacher didn’t go to university.

615 replies

RabbitWedge · 28/07/2024 17:38

Two of my DC’s are at the same secondary private school. It’s a small private school, not a well known name, but costs a small fortune nonetheless. An interaction with one of my DC’s English teachers at the end of term has made me feel uncomfortable.

‘Mrs Jones’ has worked at the school for a number of years. She is a very well liked English teacher; the children love her and she’s given high praise on the parents WhatsApp group. At the end of term, I was having a casual chit chat with ‘Mrs Jones’ and the topic of university came up. I asked ‘Mrs Jones’ where she went to university, and she stated that she had not gone and didn’t have a degree. I must have looked very taken aback, as she quickly added that she had an impeccable educational record (apparently all A’s and A*’s), she’d been tutoring for a number of years and working as a TA, at which point the school promoted her to teach English. I didn’t ask for this explanation, but she perhaps felt the need to justify her teaching.

I was under the impression that all teachers had to have degrees at the very least, and whilst I don’t doubt her popularity and delivery of her English lessons, I am concerned. I was aware that teachers in the private system didn’t need to be qualified teachers, but to not even have attended university seems unsuitable.

Would you raise this with the school in my position?

OP posts:
TheRainItRaineth · 28/07/2024 19:11

Taxiparent · 28/07/2024 19:03

To the same ends that not having a degree/teaching qualification won’t mean you are a bad teacher, having a Masters/phd won’t necessarily make you a good one either. Some private schools flaunt these teachers as though they will be excellent teachers and far superior to those without, but it really doesn’t work that way. Teaching is about being able to disseminate knowledge and skills in a way young people can understand and retain, the best teachers are those who have the ability to do this well.

Yes, this is true. But it's not a given that having a PGCE gives you the ability to do that.

And I think it might be hard to gain high level knowledge without a degree. Sure, knowledge of the curriculum is easily gained - it's designed for children to study. Personally I think teachers should have higher level knowledge than what they are actually teaching. All of DD's teachers with PhDs (she's had several) have been excellent but I guess you will get excellent teachers of whatever stripe if you can pick and choose (which some schools can).

WonderingWanda · 28/07/2024 19:10

What would you be hoping for by raising it with the school? Presumably they already know this because they employed her and she must be doing a good job otherwise they would've got rid of her?

bonzaitree · 28/07/2024 19:10

I wouldn’t want to pay for a teacher that has no degree… especially at secondary level.

does that make me a snob? Maybe.

Pythag · 28/07/2024 19:10

moonshinepoursthroughmywindow · 28/07/2024 18:12

I've heard before that this sometimes happens in private schools. It's one of several reasons why I didn't want my DC to go to private schools.

What a weird thing to be concerned about!

Underlig · 28/07/2024 19:09

I have a friend who is not only a teacher without a degree, they are head of department.

Bedroomdilemmas113 · 28/07/2024 19:09

Just to add with my tongue less in my check - I would also want to be assured that this wasn’t a cost saving exercise - ie school habitually ‘promoting’ TAs off the back of ‘proven adeptness/talent in the classroom’ meaning in reality the school benefitting from ‘teachers’ at a much lower cost because they are offering a ‘pay rise’ but still to nowhere near what a qualified teacher would cost them.

If they consider her a teacher and pay her the same regardless, and she can teach and has been getting results then fair play.

Jenasaurus · 28/07/2024 19:08

My mum was a primary school teacher in the 70s. She had A levels and a teaching qualification but no degree. She also couldn't swim but was asked to teach the children swimming too. It was shallow water but I doubt this would be allowed nowadays. In contrast my daughter is also a primary teacher and has 2 degrees as well as previous experience working with children with specialist needs. I didn't realise the private sector was different on this

BibbleandSqwauk · 28/07/2024 19:08

3CustardCreams · 28/07/2024 18:54

If I was a well qualified and competent teacher (I’m not) - I would choose to work in state schools simply for the gold plated pension. Private school teachers do not get that pension. Lord knows what standards they are held to. Money doesn’t always get you the best.

Some extraordinary ignorance there. There are independent inspections just like OFSTED and my school and the previous does still use the TPS. I know if no colleagues in the private sector now who do not have or are working on a QTS qualification. We teach, with minimal issues of crowd control, we can choose with much more freedom what we'd like to teach or what our students would be interested in. Many of us have taught successfully in state but chose private for a variety of reasons, not least the reduction in fees for own children. So many sad generalisations on here.

rosesinmygarden · 28/07/2024 19:07

DuckBee · 28/07/2024 17:41

You would be surprised to learn the teachers at private schools don’t have to be qualified in their subject or qualified as teachers at alll but the state sector does. You should find out what you are paying for before you pay.

Teachers at state schools don't have to be qualified teachers either ... the law was changed to allow schools to hire people without QTS to teach.

Pythag · 28/07/2024 19:07

VeterinaryCareAssistant · 28/07/2024 18:02

I think all secondary teachers should have a degree in the subject they teach (or at least a 'higher education' qualification).

Primary teachers should have a degree in primary education or similar.

What is the point of a degree in primary education? Think of your own primary school teachers- how many of them were good and didnt have a degree in primary education?

Pipsquiggle · 28/07/2024 19:06

If the students in her classes persistently have worse results than the rest of their cohort, I think you could raise concerns - not about her lack of a degree but about her teaching ability.

Private schools can hire whoever they like

Bedroomdilemmas113 · 28/07/2024 19:05

As others have said, private schools can employ non qualified teachers if they choose to.

As an aside though, I have a degree in history (and a Masters), and you definitely wouldn’t want me teaching your child history, because I can’t teach. And the most important thing about being a teacher is, in my opinion, being able to teach.

If I found out my child was getting a non qualified, non university educated teacher as a new teacher to the school I wouldn’t accept it (private, so they can make their decisions but equally so can the parents who can and will vote with their feet). However if she was getting a teacher with a well accepted known track record in the school (which is apparently the case here) and I subsequently found out she wasn’t qualified and didn’t have a degree I wouldn’t care.

Because my degree doesn’t make me a competent teacher and her lack of degree but proven track record of teaching doesn’t make her an incompetent one.

I would, however, make discrete but urgent enquiries about how this did come to happen - as in does the school have a policy of employing any Tom, Dick or Harriet off the street if they fancy a bash at teaching, or was this an exceptional case because she was already there proving her value. If the latter, I wouldn’t give it a second thought. If the former, I’d be concerned!

absquatulize · 28/07/2024 19:05

TheRainItRaineth · 28/07/2024 18:54

As everyone here keeps saying, apparently you can pick those up on the job, just as this non-degree qualified person seems to have done.

So someone who has spent 3+ years teaching is likely to be a better teacher than someone spending the same time researching.

Pythag · 28/07/2024 19:05

SensualDecay · 28/07/2024 17:59

Why do we have to choose between being a good teacher and knowing a lot about the subject?

You don’t have to chose between them, you can have both. But only one of them is actually needed.

zeibesaffron · 28/07/2024 19:04

The questions are - are your DC’s learning? Do your DC’s like and respect her? If they are learning and there are no issues - what is the actual problem?

Kitkat1523 · 28/07/2024 19:04

Think private schools can hire who they like….or whoever is the cheaper option….it’s not like state schools

Pixie2015 · 28/07/2024 19:03

If she has experience and the necessary skills to get a class good grades does it matter

Toetouchingtitties · 28/07/2024 19:03

MrsKeats · 28/07/2024 19:00

Absolute rubbish.
At gcse and A level you need in depth subject knowledge to teach properly.
Shall we have doctors with no degrees next?

No, it’s not. I’d much rather trust someone who is time served through experience and demonstrable results, than someone who has just ‘studied’ at a higher level. The ability to educate others is much more than qualifications.

Sunshine9218 · 28/07/2024 19:03

LividSummer · 28/07/2024 17:43

You answered the question yourself.

Of course teachers SHOULD have a degree, but in the private system they can do what they like, and in the state system they get whoever they can persuade to stand in front of the class if they can’t recruit.

Teaching needs a huge cash injection to recruit suitable trainees.

Cash won't make a difference, there are plenty of suitable people training and then leaving. Need to majorly reduce workload. I qualified 10 years ago and no longer in a full teaching role.

Taxiparent · 28/07/2024 19:03

TheRainItRaineth · 28/07/2024 17:46

Honestly, this doesn't sound like a good school if they can't attract degree-educated people to teach essential subjects. For context, my DD is at a private secondary and her English teacher has a PhD.

The qualifications of the deputy PM are clearly irrelevant as there are no minimum qualifications to be an MP and the entire sector is pretty much unregulated.

To the same ends that not having a degree/teaching qualification won’t mean you are a bad teacher, having a Masters/phd won’t necessarily make you a good one either. Some private schools flaunt these teachers as though they will be excellent teachers and far superior to those without, but it really doesn’t work that way. Teaching is about being able to disseminate knowledge and skills in a way young people can understand and retain, the best teachers are those who have the ability to do this well.

noctu · 28/07/2024 19:03

I went to a private school. A new chemistry teacher started. Made a huge song and dance about everyone needing to call him Dr Bloggs rather than Mr Bloggs as he has a PhD.
No educational qualifications whatsoever.
Our lessons - genuinely - consisted of him writing out a chemistry-related essay on the whiteboard, and us copying it into our notebooks.

JudgeJ · 28/07/2024 19:02

Toetouchingtitties · 28/07/2024 17:44

I don’t get this ‘need a degree to teach’ bullshit. You can get some very capable individuals who can teach without one. If they are getting good results, what’s the issue?

You can also get some with excellent degrees who can't teach their subject!

During WW2 a lot of totally unqualified women went to teach when men were called up and a lot were excellent teachers, some were still teaching in the '60s and were awarded 'qualified through experiences' status.
A degree is no guarantee of teaching ability.

Why does 'still teaching' default to 'defecation', luckily I do a quick check!

BlackStrayCat · 28/07/2024 19:02

DDs school was private. Most teachers were TEFEL from abroad. They had no idea. I took her out.

Pythag · 28/07/2024 19:00

LividSummer · 28/07/2024 17:43

You answered the question yourself.

Of course teachers SHOULD have a degree, but in the private system they can do what they like, and in the state system they get whoever they can persuade to stand in front of the class if they can’t recruit.

Teaching needs a huge cash injection to recruit suitable trainees.

Why should teachers of course have a degree? Teachers should be good at teaching. You can be good at teaching without a degree.

MrsKeats · 28/07/2024 19:00

Toetouchingtitties · 28/07/2024 17:44

I don’t get this ‘need a degree to teach’ bullshit. You can get some very capable individuals who can teach without one. If they are getting good results, what’s the issue?

Absolute rubbish.
At gcse and A level you need in depth subject knowledge to teach properly.
Shall we have doctors with no degrees next?