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DC’s teacher didn’t go to university.

615 replies

RabbitWedge · 28/07/2024 17:38

Two of my DC’s are at the same secondary private school. It’s a small private school, not a well known name, but costs a small fortune nonetheless. An interaction with one of my DC’s English teachers at the end of term has made me feel uncomfortable.

‘Mrs Jones’ has worked at the school for a number of years. She is a very well liked English teacher; the children love her and she’s given high praise on the parents WhatsApp group. At the end of term, I was having a casual chit chat with ‘Mrs Jones’ and the topic of university came up. I asked ‘Mrs Jones’ where she went to university, and she stated that she had not gone and didn’t have a degree. I must have looked very taken aback, as she quickly added that she had an impeccable educational record (apparently all A’s and A*’s), she’d been tutoring for a number of years and working as a TA, at which point the school promoted her to teach English. I didn’t ask for this explanation, but she perhaps felt the need to justify her teaching.

I was under the impression that all teachers had to have degrees at the very least, and whilst I don’t doubt her popularity and delivery of her English lessons, I am concerned. I was aware that teachers in the private system didn’t need to be qualified teachers, but to not even have attended university seems unsuitable.

Would you raise this with the school in my position?

OP posts:
greengreyblue · 28/07/2024 19:25

I had a very knowledgable physics teacher at secondary school. He just couldn’t teach us, couldn’t explain theories in an easily understandable way for 14 year olds, couldn’t manage a class or his time. What use is that?

Pythag · 28/07/2024 19:25

MrsKeats · 28/07/2024 19:00

Absolute rubbish.
At gcse and A level you need in depth subject knowledge to teach properly.
Shall we have doctors with no degrees next?

You can have in depth subject knowledge without a degree.

Storynanny1 · 28/07/2024 19:24

As an aside, those of you saying that primary teachers in the past didn’t need a degree - well, they didn’t get a piece of paper with B.Ed written on it or wear the cap and gown, but our teacher training Cert.Ed ( mine was in 1975) changed to B.Ed overnight in the late 70’s., with identical content. So yes, teachers in the state system have always been required to have a degree or its identical predecessor the Cert .Ed.
Unlike the private sector, who can employ who they like.

wordler · 28/07/2024 19:23

absquatulize · 28/07/2024 19:21

Very many physics teachers haven't studied physics at a higher level.

I had exactly this at secondary school - our Physics GCSE teacher was a chemistry teacher who had to do it as they were short staffed. It was clear she hated teaching physics and we all suffered because of that.

I'd have much rather had a teacher who was engaged in the subject with no degree than a teacher with a degree in Chemistry who hated the subject she was teaching.

greengreyblue · 28/07/2024 19:22

I’m a HLTA with A levels but no degree. I cover lessons and teach non core subjects like PSHE. My spelling, grammar and knowledge are better than some degree holding teachers. Honestly you can get in to teaching these days very easily, it’s such a low bar now. Don’t discount this teacher with lots of experience.

Drizzlethru · 28/07/2024 19:22

Toetouchingtitties · 28/07/2024 17:44

I don’t get this ‘need a degree to teach’ bullshit. You can get some very capable individuals who can teach without one. If they are getting good results, what’s the issue?

Thank goodness that is not the same in other sectors. Imagine an nhs consultant who got A’s and was good at medical stuff and got promoted to a Dr and then a consultant!

absquatulize · 28/07/2024 19:21

notbelieved · 28/07/2024 19:13

I think University is massively overrated for a lot of careers

Do you really want to go down that route for your children?

A degree doesn't make you a good teacher, but in secondary at least, you need some subject knowledge. Imagine teaching physics without higher level experience?

Very many physics teachers haven't studied physics at a higher level.

qwertyasdfgzxcv · 28/07/2024 19:20

I have a friend with a music degree who has taught both English and science at secondary. So although she has a degree, I doubt it has enhanced her teaching of those subjects! State school rated good/outstanding.

wordler · 28/07/2024 19:19

TheRainItRaineth · 28/07/2024 19:11

Yes, this is true. But it's not a given that having a PGCE gives you the ability to do that.

And I think it might be hard to gain high level knowledge without a degree. Sure, knowledge of the curriculum is easily gained - it's designed for children to study. Personally I think teachers should have higher level knowledge than what they are actually teaching. All of DD's teachers with PhDs (she's had several) have been excellent but I guess you will get excellent teachers of whatever stripe if you can pick and choose (which some schools can).

But if you are an engaged and intellectually curious person you can gain that higher knowledge though your own independent reading and study.

It's equally possible to study to the exam material and let that knowledge just flow out of your brain the day after the exam.

I'm one of those people. If I need to pass an exam I can do an intensive short-term study, get top marks on an exam or write an excellent essay or dissertation and then I just forget all about it (if I'm not genuinely interested in it)

I have an excellent history degree from a very good university. I spent most of my university years enjoying myself, doing some much needed growing up and then last-minute studying, cramming the material in and doing well in the exam.

If you'd asked me the next month anything about my degree subject I couldn't have remembered half of it. I certainly wouldn't have been good at teaching it.

A lot of degrees certificates are not any guarantee of a mind stuffed with higher level knowledge - particularly as if you just say 'degree' you aren't even sure the degree was relevant or academically rigorous enough.

Thmssngvwlsrnd · 28/07/2024 19:19

If she genuinely has pupils passing with As and A*s (or whatever the equivalents are called nowadays), I don't see what your problem is.

Mustreadabook · 28/07/2024 19:18

There was a teacher at my children's primary state school who was a TA and then started doing day release to get a teaching qualification. As far as I could tell she did seem to get a class of her own before she had finished the teaching qualification. Perhaps your teacher is doing something like this?

TroysMammy · 28/07/2024 19:18

Our English speaking school had a Welsh teacher and when a bilingual parent started a conversation with her the Welsh teacher admitted she couldn't understand what the parent was talking about. She was fluent but not bilingual.

Sugarsugarahhoneyhoney · 28/07/2024 19:17

You said she's very well liked and the children love her and I presume she can teach, I don't see what the big deal is.

3CustardCreams · 28/07/2024 19:17

BibbleandSqwauk · 28/07/2024 19:08

Some extraordinary ignorance there. There are independent inspections just like OFSTED and my school and the previous does still use the TPS. I know if no colleagues in the private sector now who do not have or are working on a QTS qualification. We teach, with minimal issues of crowd control, we can choose with much more freedom what we'd like to teach or what our students would be interested in. Many of us have taught successfully in state but chose private for a variety of reasons, not least the reduction in fees for own children. So many sad generalisations on here.

Having more freedom to teach what you’re interested in as a private school teacher is worrying. What if you had a particular interest in Russian literature and disliked Shakespeare - so no student studies The Tempest or The Winters Tale 😱😱 that was a rite of passage for me and should be for all. Shakespeare isn’t my favourite but I have fond memories of my English lessons. I want my children to be taught according to curriculum and not off piste!! What if the teacher hasn’t read any Dickens or Jane Austen or Elizabeth Gaskell or any poetry. Or Shakespeare. Alot of time is spent devising curriculums. And for good reason. I still remember Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner. North and South. Pride and prejudice. I really hope my English teacher would have studied such works of art.

BibbleandSqwauk · 28/07/2024 19:17

notbelieved · 28/07/2024 19:13

I think University is massively overrated for a lot of careers

Do you really want to go down that route for your children?

A degree doesn't make you a good teacher, but in secondary at least, you need some subject knowledge. Imagine teaching physics without higher level experience?

Thing is, in many subjects, there are a vast array of different topics. I have a master's in History but know pretty much zip about China, the unification of Italy or the Korean war. I have been asked to teach A level units in things I haven't previously studied so swotted up over the holidays and was fine. Just having a degree in X subject doesn't mean you're an expert in. ALL aspects. Provided the teacher is committed, literate and has a good work ethic the lack of a degree is not necessarily an issue.

HereBeFuckery · 28/07/2024 19:17

The best English "teacher" in my department, who gets given the toughest classes and invariably gets them all to make steady (or better) progress, is an HLTA, with no degree. I have a PhD, not in English, and am a considerably worse teacher than him (although I am improving and will continue to work on my subject knowledge and pedagogy.

YellowAsteroid · 28/07/2024 19:15

Teaching is about being able to disseminate knowledge and skills in a way young people can understand and retain, the best teachers are those who have the ability to do this well.

This is two related, but different things:

knowledge and skills
ability to communicate these

A degree develops knowledge and skills, and does so in a way that equips the degree-holder to keep on learning and deepening and broadening his or her knowledge of the subject throughout his/her professional life.

Pythag · 28/07/2024 19:14

IncessantNameChanger · 28/07/2024 18:24

Yep you dont need to be qualified to tech in a private school. One of ds schools has a head of year who teaches PE with no degree. I'm sure he's,a great PE teacher but is it ideal as HOY? I'm not sure.

Edited

Having a degree isn’t very relevant to being head of year.

Frith2013 · 28/07/2024 19:14

This is always the problem with private schools. They can employ anyone, regardless of qualifications or experience.

Whiskeymalavodkaade · 28/07/2024 19:13

My Father is a very successful private maths tutor, he has not completed a degree.

He is however a mechanical engineer via apprenticeship in the 70’s, he had stellar a’level results, he completed the best part of maths degree while working but it just wasn’t necessary for him to teach the curriculum that he could do in his sleep. His pupils love him, their parents love him and he consistently gets students through GSCE and A’Levels at a very high standard.

I hope this reassures you that the degree is not necessary for a teacher to be a subject matter expert with the gift for passing knowledge on to students.

BobbinThreadbare123 · 28/07/2024 19:13

Is she good at her job?
My best A Level Chemistry teacher did not have a degree. He had relevant industry experience and he was a personable guy. FWIW I do have a PhD and have taught secondary level, in state and private schools. I got good results but the PhD wasn't what helped me, except to support my very top end A Level kids.

notbelieved · 28/07/2024 19:13

I think University is massively overrated for a lot of careers

Do you really want to go down that route for your children?

A degree doesn't make you a good teacher, but in secondary at least, you need some subject knowledge. Imagine teaching physics without higher level experience?

InsensibleMe · 28/07/2024 19:12

Totally unacceptable. See if you can get her sacked.

TheRainItRaineth · 28/07/2024 19:12

absquatulize · 28/07/2024 19:05

So someone who has spent 3+ years teaching is likely to be a better teacher than someone spending the same time researching.

Well, you could have someone who has spent three years teaching and has a degree or higher. Set against someone with three years teaching and no degree of any kind I think I'd pick the teacher with both.

PurBal · 28/07/2024 19:12

This is normal in independent schools (don’t know about state).