New career working Christmas as single parent

OK, so here’s a thought. If employers know they have to treat parents of under 10s as unavailable for work on Christmas Day, then they need to ensure that their ward isn’t solely staffed by parents of under 10s. They’re under a duty to the children now remember, to safeguard their right to wellbeing magic.

That means they have to ask at hiring stage if the applicant is a parent of under 10s. And if so, a childless person or older parent will get the job instead.

Now oddly, I suspect parents of under 10s would complain about being treated differently to other employees when it doesn’t benefit them. They want to be treated “identically” to the childless when it comes to hiring. But when it comes to working conditions and getting a benefit, then they want to be treated “equitably”.

This is another reason why children should be irrelevant in the workplace. The only people who are responsible for safeguarding magic are the parents. If you genuinely think that it’s a wellbeing issue then parents of under 10s have no business working these jobs, because it’s THEM that are harming their children. Not random colleague Mary who has no relationship with them and owes them bugger all.

You also said it was wrong that I worked 8 Christmases in a row @LewishamMumNow but that’s what you’re advocating for - childless people doing more Christmases because they should prioritise random children over their own families (even though their parents are allowed not to prioritise their own kids for some reason).

I suppose every parent of young children should also be entitled to have their children's birthdays off. And Mother's Day, Easter, and all of the summer holidays so those special children can have special memories with their families so that they don't grow up feeling like they're not any more special than anyone else.

Think my reply went missing but it was basically a, you can't seriously expect people to be responsible for how magical their colleagues children's Christmas Days are.

Don't be ridiculous! It's a fair workplace and everyone is entitled to being treated fairly, not acquiescing to those with children.

How utterly entitled and ridiculous.

Christmas morning "magic" is not a "wellbeing of children" issue that society, employers and co-workers need concern themselves with.

@MumChp Clearly I don't think children of nurses are somehow special compared to children of other people working in 24/7 services! And I agree with you about different Trusts - to work it would need to be a national policy to avoid the issues you raise.
I'm sorry you worked 8 shifts in a row - that is unfair and wrong, and not what I am proposing. But I do think you should work proportionately more (assuming you are not the parent of youngish kids) to facilitate children having Christmas with the families.
All those people saying kids are the parents responsibility, well yes, obviously, when it comes to providing presents and all the usual trimmings, but no one works in a vacuum. For children to be with their parents, the parents need to be allowed the time off work at Christmas. And yes, that involves others making sacrifices - because the well being of children involves everyone doing that.

More nurses than you think of tbh.
More than one nurse will concider a 3rd child if it means Christmas off duty another 10 yo.

It would never work if nurses with children under 10 yo have special rights at wards - and whabout it fire fighters, ambulance staff, doctors, hospital kitchen staff, midwives, police officers, care home staff and so on? Lots of people work Christmas Day.

And nurses will leave that trust for other jobs. No one wants to be told an unfair share of the shi* t shifts. Remember nurses also work 24/7 the rest of the year. Including the days you are off work (with your children or grandchildren if you have any).

Another saying congratulations. Well done.

What about someone in your uni cohort? You must have been friendly with someone.

When you start ask around your new colleagues, they may have teenage or uni age children looking to make some money.

Approach this as something you will solve, and you will.

I mention children of staff because when you have grown up with mum and dad working shifts you grow up knowing people work around the clock so you don't see Christmas as a day when everyone is off.

@LewishamMumNow I worked 8 Christmases in a row because of people who think like you do. Too right I now stick up for my “rights” as an employee, which are the ones that matter to an employer. Employers should not have any liability to or duties towards random children.

You might not like it, but I have the right to be treated fairly by my employer, and that does not equal my employer telling me I have to work 5 Christmases to Susan’s 1 because they have a duty to Susan’s children!

If children have a right to Christmas magic then it is for THEIR PARENTS to provide it, not the parents’ employers or their random colleagues.

You could possibly plan for using a service like this:

https://www.greycoatlumleys.co.uk/blog/2023/12/christmas-childcare-tips-on-hiring-a-nanny-for-christmas

I'm crossing my fingers for you that you won't need to! It would be very expensive, but hopefully only once.

You sound like a lovely sister and mother.

Christmas is not just the day itself so you can make the most of the time you do have with your lovely children!

@LewishamMumNow And as for people having 14 dying grannies during their career, that would be both gross misconduct and would mean they were liable to be struck off by the NMC. I don't think many people would risk it for Christmas. Thankfully, I have a higher opinion and respect for nurses than you.

You also clearly don't really have a working understanding of the public sector, so I'm bowing out now.

But youngish children should still take priority at Christmas time.

By their parents, yes. Not by anyone else. You prioritised Christmas by taking a job which means you aren't required to work Christmas. If you had chosen to take a job that required you to work Christmas, then you would be expected to work Christmas. The result of your choice isn't your employer's responsibility to change, and it definitely isn't your colleagues. In NHS hospital wards (and I imagine in most other 24hr services), the requirement to work Christmas isn't a secret. There are plenty of other Mon-Fri-with-no-bank-holiday roles available for nurses which the OP will be able to apply for after her preceptorship training. But a nurse choosing to work on a ward is choosing to occassionally work Christmas. It doesn't become anyone else's problem to fix.

@MrJeremyFisher I'm very aware that most of this that contribute to these discussions on mumsnet are only concerned with "their" rights, and don't think about the special status of children. Not sure that is in fact representative of mumsnet as a whole, and whether it is or not, I still think it's wrong.
@JudgeBurrito Well I'm saying the children should have that right. Do they currently? Clearly not, but it obvious that I understand that from the last hour or so of our discussions. Obviously from hindsight, anyone's Christmas could be their last - including young children. I was responding to pp pointing out very special circumstances that were known about that did not involve children. That point still stands. And as for people having 14 dying grannies during their career, that would be both gross misconduct and would mean they were liable to be struck off by the NMC. I don't think many people would risk it for Christmas. Thankfully, I have a higher opinion and respect for nurses than you.

@LewishamMumNow you keep going on about the rights of children. Children do not have the right to have a parent off work on Christmas Day! That's just a fact. And you're saying terminally ill relatives would grant an exception. In a number of cases people lose their parents/partners suddenly, so by (in your world) forcing them to work Christmas for X years in a row so the parents can be off, you'd deprive them of a number of family Christmases and with hindsight their final Christmas with that relative. Also I think if you granted that exception you'd find some NHS staff would have about 14 dying grannies over the course of their career...

Well fortunately you don't make the rules. And fortunately most of MN doesn't agree with you. This topic has come up before and the vast majority of posters are on my side of the argument.

Clearly it is the employers responsibility to facilitate it. But it means those without children (youngish - not suggesting it applies into the teens let alone adulthood) working more Christmas shifts, though of course not every year.

That's disingenuous. I also think children are special and deserve a special xmas. I just don't believe it's my responsibility to facilitate that.

I didn't say you're a hypocrite. I said it's very easy to say "I think people should do X" when there's no danger of you having to do X.

Well the op has 5 kids. I had my first at 15 so clearly not that uncommon especially now its the norm for women to be still having children in their 40s. It's not out of the ordinary to have multiple children and to have them spaced out especially when your talking about having children with a new partner after separation and divorce.

I’ve worked every other Christmas Day for > 20 years. Did I expect colleagues to prioritise MY children at their own expense? Absolutely not. I chose to remain in a job that includes bank holiday and Christmas working. You do get the odd staff member who thinks it’s their right to have every Christmas Day off once they have children. Thankfully it’s not that common.

This is all very rare. Seriously, how many people have four kids these days. And on a nurses salary. And with a five year age gap - would need to start quite young. Extreme examples make bad law/practice, etc. They'd be the odd case like this, but most people would have 2 kids no more than 4 or 5 years apart and generally less. Because that's life and people are not going to have another ten years later because of Christmas.

@MrJeremyFisher First you criticise me for expecting you to care about my kids more than your own family, then when I point out I am not personally affected, I'm some sort of hypocrite... Can't you just accept we disagree because I think children are special and deserve a special Christmas?!

It doesn't have to be a 9/10 year age gap even a 5 year age gap with say 4 kids really adds up the years

@Differentstarts Not many people have multiple children 10 years apart! And clearly others would get some Christmases off - with terminally ill close relations always an exception - just more than they otherwise would because yes, the rights of children - not their parents - matter, and especially at Christmas.
This is one of those areas where mumsnet becomes weirdly anti-kids, and I think that attitude should be challenged: don't think of yourself, think of your childhood.

People saying priorities young children upto the age of 10 so if someone has multiple children where their is a 9/10 year age gap between each you would be OK for them to not work a Christmas day for 30 years and you would be happy to not spend the next 30 years having Christmas with your family, your kids, grandkids, elderly parents, terminally ill relatives