Conversations around race with your partner

Listening to each other is fine. It isn't about creating an echo chamber. But a white person dismissing or minimising the feelings of a POC about racism? No, never acceptable in my view.

But surely that is an incredibly insular way to view it. If you want to be listened to, you must also listen. An echo chamber mentality will never progress anything.

It isn't about considering one side. It is about recognising that, if you do not have lived experience of racism, you have no right to tell people who do have that lived experience what they should feel about it.

In the same way, I wouldn't expect a man to tell me how I should feel about sexism and misogyny.

I disagree with you. White people have not experienced racism in the same way as POC, and they do not have the right to tell POC how to feel about racist behaviour. On this subject, a white person's opinions are categorically not "as valid" and given the history of oppression and discrimination, feelings on this subject are never "just personal".

Or of course you can just live in an echo chamber, where you will only consider one side of a situation.

Feelings are just that, personal. It doesn't make you or the OP's opinion any more valid than the husbands or anyone else for that matter. Nor does it trump the feelings of the person on the receiving end of whatever abuse was said/done to the alleged racist.

Yes, how can anyone be indifferent to race issues when they have mixed race children? The mind boggles...

I just don't remotely agree with you. My husband and close friend are black and what they face on a regular basis appalls me. They have no ability to "opt out" of facing racism. And that's bullshit that sticks and stones rubbish. I can't remotely understand as the white partner how race couldn't be a big part of your life when you are in an interracial relationship. And especially if you have children together.

I absolutely do not consider it appropriate for a white person to be telling a POC how to respond to racist language under any circumstances. The only reasonable response in such situations is to listen to the POC and respect their feelings on the matter.

For him to say he isn't "motivated" by race just means he doesn't get it at all.

Ot he could mean, you know there are unpleasant people of all ethnicities, religions etc etc. The best remedy to it is just not get involved with them. Nasty words can only do you harm if you let them.

OP, I'm the white partner in a mixed race relationship. In seeking to minimise or deny racism, I think he is gaslighting you.

It's obvious from your posts that you are not stupid, and I believe that you know racism when you see it. I suspect your partner sees it as well, but even on the off-chance that he doesn't, he should be listening to you and acknowledging your perspective.

Honestly, I think he is unlikely to change, and think you have to ask yourself whether you want a future with a man who defends and dismisses racism. It's your life, but I think you deserve better.

For the sake of comparison, I have been with my DH for nearly 30 years and I don't think we have ever had a disagreement about race during that time. We have talked about it often, but I have never sought to minimise his experiences and I wouldn't ever tolerate family members making racist comments (not that my family are that way inclined in any case). I recognise that his experiences as a POC and mine as a white person are inevitably different, and that he will therefore have different insights - I try to listen to those insights and learn from them, rather than assuming that I know best, because that is how a normal respectful relationship works.

I agree, I hope that the OP is able to take solace from the fact that she is not wrong in how she is feeling, many posters understand, and that she can take steps to ensure her future well being.

No I don't agree at all. The op has given loads of instances of her husband downplaying what she is saying and not listening her. The instance in her original post is just one example. Being an ally means you have to actively be anti-racist and fight it when you are exposed to it or your spouse tells you their experiences. For him to say he isn't "motivated" by race just means he doesn't get it at all.

Using the OP. Her husband seems to be taking a pragmatic approach. He suggests that whoever was the target of the racist remark should not have started an altercation. The OP witnessing the altercation seems to be minimising whatever insult was given first. The OP and a number of others on this thread seem to only consider their lived experiences as valid and minimising all others.

I think this thread has deviated away from the main point.... it doesn't matter what the original insult was, what matters is that the OPs husband is minimising and deliberately ignoring her lived experiences of racism and sense of self as a woman of colour. This is not someone to build a future or have children with.

What you are saying then is that only the things you find offensive matter. If a person has a disfiguring injury, birthmark etc, somebody saying horrible things about looks isn't as insulting?

Thank you@Ididntsignuptothis , you understand.

Why does it matter what was said? To resort to a racial insult is in another league. The whataboutery being displayed is just typical, and shows the total lack of understanding of the historical context, that still lingers to this day. To suggest that 175 years ago is not recent history, whilst neglecting to understand the legacy that black people have been saddled with, and continue to suffer from, shows a distinct lack of understanding, and to keep hammering the point that all insults are equal is just showing up that complete lack of knowledge of black people's lived experience. I do not expect white people to understand all this. To even begin to understand starts with education, reading, and actually listening to people who live with this, not telling them what you think you know.

I'd suggest 175 years ago isn't really recent history. Why does an insult about one persons physical appearance trump anothers? The OP seems unwilling to say what the initial insult was that received the racist reply. I'd suggest it was two people behaving like knobs and the best thing to do is just walk away.

@ATenShun yes, the enslavement of people of colour is in history, but it's recent history and the repercussions are still very much apparent.

Are you white? I ask as I am white, and so racism is not something I've known. It's something I've come to know about as I've grown, but it's something you have to actively participate in the learning about, our world is an inherently racist one and so as a white person we will inevitably have blind spots. If a person of colour tells you something is racist and offensive, rather than minimise what they say by telling them that other insults are equally offensive, try just listening and valuing that they are the best authority about what is racist.

I think I'd be ending this relationship if I were you.

It's different I guess because I'm white so not obviously from another background to strangers but my husband used to regularly use 'pikey' and 'gyppo' as insults. Yeah, I'm traveller and I'm proud but hearing him saying those words that I'd been taunted with all through school was SO upsetting. Thankfully he got it and stopped. If your husband doesn't get it, seriously, leave.

Agreed. The best thing anyone can do if in a situation where offensive language is being used, is just move away, thinking what a pair of knobs.

I've cut off a former friend for being racist. He was drunk and kept shouting 'fucking n***s'. Our lovely neighbours are black and would probably have heard. No fucking way am I associating with someone who thinks that was acceptable, I threw him out. I can't believe you're in a relationship with this man!