Manchester Airport Incident

Couldn't agree more with you

If that part of Leeds had gone up in flames it would have done millions of pounds worth of improvement.

Policing by consent works when society is complicit in maintaining a level of law and order and good will itself.

We know for a fact - it's indisputable - that there are large sections/communities with absolutely zero respect for anyone but themselves.

How anyone can even begin to fault the police here in the face such a barrage of violence - committed by feral thugs in the presence of their own mother FFS! - beggars belief.

Arming police doesn't mean they'll "spray hot lead around when an incident can be de-escalated"!

That's a non-sequitur and folks really need to lay of thinking of US police forces when we already have an example of a routinely armed police force in the UK which very rarely fires weapons with 0 fatalities in its history - PSNI.

A police officer needs to psychologically dominate a suspect and/or criminal very early on to reduce the likelihood of an incident spinning out of control.

An officer pulling his CQC weapon out has a habit of psychologically dominating a suspect which leads to compliance.

If that suspect is armed in some fashion and moves to attack, they can be shot and not in the arms or legs like in Hollywood films.

Honest belief comes into play for police officers AND soldiers as per ECtHR cases.

I suggest times have changed and GB forces in places such as Manchester and London should be looking at the PSNI policing model.

I wasn't suggesting it was. I was advancing my opinion that a kick in the head, in the very unusual and highly particularised circumstances (of which we strill don't know the full details) is not necessarily police brutality and may be highly justificable under the circumstances, especially when compared with many of our European neighbours where the same behaviour and potential terrorist threat would be met with lethal force.

Regardless of his previous abilities, people are often not skilled at anything after being punched in the head several times. Who knows what impact that that had on him.

I know. And I agree.

My point is that we don't (typically) have police units that spray hot lead around when an incident can be de-escalated without lethal force. That isn't (typically) the British method. Nor should it be.

Meh, you fuck about, you find out.

Personally I'm happy to live somewhere where if you violently attack armed police in an airport, you get a kick in the head.

Lots of other countries they would have been shot and it wouldn't even make the national news.

On the contrary, it's absolutely relevant what happens in other countries.

Terrorism is a global issue and anti-terror police units regularly swap learning and tactics with other units across the globe.

Whilst I'm glad you lived in the east end without being 'murdered', you are not the only person who resides in the UK. Therefore, your singular experience is not representative.

I'd also argue that, in addition to major things like terrorism and murder (which you so lightly bandy about), it's the smaller and more constant things that grind us working classes down: drug consumption openly, dealing, commotion and unruly behaviour (was kept awake all night by the hellish family who live down the hall from me, they've previously tried to kick mine and my neighbours doors in just for the heck of it), littering, graffiti, mugging, verbal harrassment etc.

We need the police.

I lived in the East End of London for nearly 40 years. I didn't get murdered there either.

The people involved are lucky to be sat at home nursing their wounds, rather than full of 'more holes than Swiss cheese'. It's irrelevant what happens in other countries.

What you said is silly . The officers are armed and highly skilled. They are fully aware of the dangers they face. They carry guns and need to be of the highest standard when it comes to their behaviour. And he did stamp on his head what a silly thing to say. He wasn't using it as a shoe rest was he...and those shoes they wear.. those shoes are killers I'm sure. Toe reinforced probably at a guess.

Dont act like a violent idiot around armed police officers. Choke hold a policeman, break a police woman’s nose, then sit on your sofa with a sad face, claiming you are the victim.

There's a big difference between policing mass unrest and policing a potential active terrorist incident in an airport.

Completely different situations, tactics, etc.

Also, whilst I am glad you live in a peaceful and prosperous town with a low crime rate, please bear in mind that not everyone on this thread enjoys your level of privilege. We need the police.

There aren't enough police anyway.

I can't even remember when I last saw one when walking round my town. Despite this, the shop windows remain unsmashed and the locals remain unmurdered.

The British model is policing by consent. For the most part it works very well. De-escalate. Arrest. As seen recently in Leeds. If the West Yorks police had acted like the CRS would have done in a comparable French city, half of Leeds would have gone up in flames.

Not going to do this though is she. Being anti establishment screams to their far left core

The first is Starmer too but agree her statements are bad. They’ll continue to be if deaths keep mounting

I think you would have to be superhuman to see two of your colleagues (one a woman whose nose was broken) repeatedly punched while down on the floor and completely keep control of your emotions.

I doubt he would have seen his colleagues being attacked - he was otherwise engaged with fending off the man who was punching him in the head.

Fully agree. Between this and removing the Rwanda deterrent without providing any safe routes, resulting in 8 deaths is it now? (a whole other thread) Cooper has made catastrophic errors far beyond those of any HS since at least Jacqui Smith and has to go.

I think you would have to be superhuman to see two of your colleagues (one a woman whose nose was broken) repeatedly punched while down on the floor and completely keep control of your emotions.

The police must have been terrified that one of these attackers would grab their weapons.

I'm starting to think the policeman's actions were exemplary. He successfully subdued the violent assailants with minimal injury to them. He didn't stamp on anyone's head, he stamped next to the head as a distraction and shock tactic. Unlike many mumsnetters who seem to think they're some kind of magic device that immediately stops everyone in their tracks for ages, he actually knows how tasers work and used appropriate actions when the violent assailant tried to get up again straight away as expected, stopping the assailant while protecting his weapons which he wouldn't have been able to do if he'd tried to handcuff the assailant. We've seen the assailants sitting totally unharmed on their sofa practising their best sad compo faces. They were very lucky and they should be in a cell right now.

But they should’ve risen above it!

Or something…,

People don't realise the courts, including European Court of Human Rights, doesn't want to place an unreasonable burden on what police & military personnel can do in the course of their duties.

If they have an honest belief regarding something about you, e.g., believe you to be armed, violent, etc, they are permitted to take more force than the civilian might expect.

Even if you're subsequently found to have been unarmed.

There are legal precedents for this in UK & Europe.

As for the officer, any case against him will hinge on whatever honest belief he reasonably held at the time. That's why I've not commented much on this as we don't have all the information.

A lot of people base their opinions on short clips posted on social media which never really has the full context. That goes for war clips as much as it does for an airport incident like this.

It's not even just flight or fight. The injuries to his head would have had a huge impact on his response. He may not have been able to see properly let alone think properly and act according to training.

There is no excuse whatsoever for attacking the police. And in an airport to boot. They’re lucky they weren’t shot dead, which would have been fully justified IMO.

I see the second video is being ignored by the same media outraged over the first one.

The Home Secretary should lose her job over this in any rational government. She saw the whole video and couldn’t muster any support whatsoever for her injured and attacked police. Not fit for purpose.