I would swap with her in an instant

@IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos You're a man. Of course you think we women are mistaken. You clearly know more about our own lives experiences than we do.

The claims aren't just about your own lies and experiences though. Your claims are about how men talk and act in the workplace. I would also challenge men who made the same claims.

@5128gap I was not mistaken when I had to give evidence in a disciplinary at work when a group of male colleagues were sharing nudes of a young female colleague one had had sex with. I'm happy to offer this anecdote without fear of it being outing as sadly this isn't sufficiently uncommon as to identify me or her.

You're the first person to provide a specific example, but I imagine this scenario is very uncommon. Of all the men I have worked with, I have never seen anything that comes to close to this.

You might feel the same as OP, I don't. How would you know what "most" women feel?

Is this a joke?

All the posters shocked and appalled by the OP, shaking their heads and telling her to get therapy know darn well many (if not most) women would feel the same. Perhaps we as a society need therapy, but pretending like what OP felt is uncommon and weird, is ridiculous.

🤣🤣🤣

Lucky your feeble female mind can tell the difference!

Certainly not. I rarely watch television. I tend to spend my evenings in my local The Rovers. There's an old guy who goes in there, Ken something, always bragging about women.

Sure you weren't watching Corrie and confused it with your own life????

I was not mistaken when I had to give evidence in a disciplinary at work when a group of male colleagues were sharing nudes of a young female colleague one had had sex with. I'm happy to offer this anecdote without fear of it being outing as sadly this isn't sufficiently uncommon as to identify me or her.

If that's not enough, my partner and adult sons looked at me in some surprise when I just asked them if any men spoke like this. The surprise being that that i was naive enough to have to ask. And before I get told the men in my life should keep better company, I assure you, they try to. Unfortunately they have no control over who they work alongside, who attends their gym or the other members of their sports teams.

You're a man. Of course you think we women are mistaken. You clearly know more about our own lives experiences than we do.

I completely apologise for thinking I knew more about what's happened in my own life than any random male stranger.

@IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos this is an anonymous forum. We aren't giving you specific examples because we wish to remain anonymous and not being recognised by our friends or colleagues.

Then you omit details that would lead to identification.

We also shouldn't have to give you specific examples for you to believe that we've heard men speaking like this. Or that we've been subjected to men treating us like this.

Well I haven't heard it, and being a man, that means they are less likely to filter their words around me. So if this was true, I should have heard it.

What do we have to gain by lying on an anonymous forum???

I don't think you are lying. I think you are just mistaken.

People spend a lot of time watching TV, and it is easy to conflate what you see on TV with real life. For example, misogyny tends to be massively exaggerated on TV (you know, because men are always the bad guys). People see this stuff on TV and this subconsciously changes their brain so they think this is the way men actually are.

I do not watch TV, so I am largely immune to this.

@shuggles this is an anonymous forum. We aren't giving you specific examples because we wish to remain anonymous and not being recognised by our friends or colleagues.

We also shouldn't have to give you specific examples for you to believe that we've heard men speaking like this. Or that we've been subjected to men treating us like this. What do we have to gain by lying on an anonymous forum???

It happens. Don't be so naive that you think it doesn't.

@VickyPollard25 @IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos Most of us know men like this.

And yet, none of you can ever cite specific examples. It's always vague statements like "men talk about their "conquests" with other men" but you can never recall a time when you actually saw this.

I'll agree it's not all men,

I don't agree that it's not all men. I'm saying it's a very very tiny number, or no men, because I've never seen this nonsense outside of school.

but I've worked in male dominated sectors for long enough to have come across the ones who like to tell everyone about their latest conquest or show people the "hot girl" they just matched with.

I have also worked with lots of men. And keep in mind that men have no reason to filter their words around me.

• I've never heard men walking around work and talking about their "latest conquest." Keep in mind that the majority of men, from early 20s onwards, are in long-term relationships. Those who aren't tend to keep to themselves. The majority of men don't have "conquests," if that word means what I think it means.
• I've never seen anyone walking around with a dating app to show everyone a "hot girl" that they just matched with. Again, keep in mind that most men get very few, or no, matches on dating apps.

I'm happy for you that you've never met any of these men. But don't dismiss the experiences of other women as not real because they don't match yours.

But again, when challenged on these points, none of you can ever cite specific memories or examples.

I swear that some of you people live on a different planet to me sometimes.

Most of us know men like this. I'll agree it's not all men, but I've worked in male dominated sectors for long enough to have come across the ones who like to tell everyone about their latest conquest or show people the "hot girl" they just matched with.

I'm happy for you that you've never met any of these men. But don't dismiss the experiences of other women as not real because they don't match yours.

What? Like most people, I can tell the difference between a conversation I have with real life people and when I’m watching a movie 🙄

@VickyPollard25 I have seen it many times. When they proud of what they have “got”, they do it.

When did you see it? Where? Who?

How do you know you didn't just see this in a movie, where men behave nothing like their real life counterparts?

You sound like you have a rather sheltered life, @shuggles. The way some men talk about women is absolutely disgusting. Like inanimate objects to do as they please with. This does not have to be with close friends at all.

I have seen it many times. When they proud of what they have “got”, they do it. My friend even met her husband because a mutual male friend showed him a photo of her to show him how cute she is.

@VickyPollard25 The fact that men are so much more interested in beautiful women is because of their beauty. Not anything else (at first anyway). That is objectifying women. Boasting to friends, showing photos of their conquest (not inappropriate photos) and generally using the woman to look good - like they would a nice car or other material objects. This isn’t kind or respectful.

Men don't do this. I understand that women may look through dating apps in groups, or discuss love/sex/relationships, or their partner, with friends, but these group discussions aren't something that men would do. First of all, most men over the age of 30 do not have any close friends. First of all, sexuality and dating tends to be something that men keep to themselves. If a man showed me a picture of his girlfriend just to boast, I would find that extremely strange.

I agree with you and have had similar experiences. Please let's not make the mistake of thinking that men "being nice to you" due to your looks is down to a motivation of kindness or innocent empathy and generosity. Its not. They want to shag you is all- so, use you for sex. Thats it, and when you dont acquiesce, or even turn them down politely, they frequently turn nasty and aggressive- happened to me many times and a few times I was afraid for my life.

There is absolutely nothing to envy about that, unless you enjoy being treated like a sex doll who has no feelings, no brain, and isnt even a person in their own right.

Poppycock

I guess I’m thinking of personal experience. Examples - being prevented by a rail guard from exiting a train station, being taken into his office and being very upset and worried, and then told there was nothing wrong with my ticket, and he just wanted my phone number. I had to politely decline and say I had a boyfriend while raging inside. I was late to work because of this idiot.
Another example, being surrounded by a group of men at 9am one morning in a public place who proceeded to block my way and grope me (yes, I reported it to police and they were charged). Another example, being sexually harassed at work by the very old chairman of the board who took a liking to me, would stare at me if he came to the office (embarrassing for me and noticed by others) and he would bypass my boss on work and go straight to me (which obviously caused issues for me with her). It culminated in some severe sexual harassment in front of other colleagues (I sued and received a payout, but my career there obviously over and the entire experience was traumatic). The list goes on. In another job the IT guy decided he fancied me and it became clear he was reading my emails when he congratulated me on some news on and my partner knew about. Until I got to my 40s, my work life was sheer hell because of unwanted attention from men. It is so much better now. These were not men I was in relationships with. Just arseholes who think these are entitled to women they fancy. So I really do think women who men find attractive have a harder time.

I don't agree with PPs generalisation as I think attractive women are treated better by random unknown men and acquaintances than less attractive ones for the reasons you say. However once in a relationship the gloves come off as it were, and I think there's little difference in how well a man treats his established partner related to her looks. If anything, women who are considerably more attractive than the man may have thought he'd get can find themselves subject to 'negging' jealousy and control due to his insecurity. So maybe that's where the thinking comes from. Though of course women don't need to be attractive to experience these things, as male poor treatment of women from men that way inclined tends to be an equal opportunity activity, fully inclusive of all!

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Why you think looking one way or another is better than you have is sad. Don't let looks define you. Be you and get a make over if you feel stuck. You need to start living yourself not spend your life thinking the grass is greener elsewhere

This is exactly right.

Some men are vile when rejected. I’d rather not have the attention in the first place than have to deal with that.

They may have also been able to pay her a lot less.