I would swap with her in an instant

👏👏👏

@IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos So you went to university post, say, 2005, and you completed a degree in a field in which you were the only woman in the entire year group, and male undergraduates still outperformed female undergraduates in this field? (otherwise, the older male professors would not have been surprised at your ability to answer questions).

Am I sure about....when I was born?

Jesus, you really do think women know nothing.

@IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos I wasn't even born when you think I had my first job. I'm also a Millennial.

Are you sure about that? Because for people of my generation, universities had already become female-dominated by then. I remember countless videos online of people crying doom about the end of men, as men were seemingly dumb, not going to university, and not getting worthwhile jobs. By the time I was in university, the majority of undergraduates were women, and many younger academics were also women- it was only among senior professorships that men still dominated.

Totally wrong. I wasn't even born when you think I had my first job. I'm also a Millennial. And amazingly, still have had a different experience to you. Because we all have different lives.

At least when men at work try to mansplain to me, they have a vague idea of what's going on.

@IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos I'm probably from a more recent era than many posters on here. These things still happen today.

Yes, but also from an older era than many posters on here too. Based on your description of the workplace, you would have had your first job in the 70s or 80s. Just before I was born perhaps. I am a millennial, so I have had a different experience.

LOL you are so wrong it's laughable. You stated: "First of all, most men over the age of 30 do not have any close friends" and that this is rarely the case. Then you asked people to give specific examples.

I did just that about how multiple men over 30 do in fact have friends, and many people on this thread have too and now we have given examples you say thats just "my circle".

Maybe YOU have no friends and it's becoming abundantly clear why that is, but most men do in fact have friends. Just because you dont, doesnt mean everyone else is friendless 😂

You're making assumptions on my era?

I'm probably from a more recent era than many posters on here. These things still happen today.

Stop trying to mansplain my life to me because it doesn't match your idea of what a woman's life should be.

You are not a woman, you have not had the experiences of a woman and therefore are not qualified to tell us whether our experience is right or wrong.

My DSs have witnessed it. Theyre 20s/30s. How do you explain that? They also have friends. Which I understand is OK for the younger, but impossible for the elder?

@IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos Demanding evidence from the women opposing your view, however, and then ignoring it when provided.

It sounds like you are from a different era (for example, university professors being surprised that you can answer questions, or being the only woman on the degree course), which may explain why your experience of the workplace has been different. I haven't witnessed anything that remotely resembles what you describe.

And yet the only "evidence" you were able to provide was.....a TV sketch.

Demanding evidence from the women opposing your view, however, and then ignoring it when provided.

You're doing a really good job of making everyone's point but your own. Well done.

@realityhack What you are saying is applicable to a small circle of men. The men you know have friends, in your circle.

There are countless men who do not have friends, that are unknown to you.

@IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos You have the same feeble female brain as us, as you're confusing TV with real life.

I never said that conflation of TV with real life is something that's specific to women. You are making things up that I never said.

I believe that conflation of TV with real life is universal among the British population, and the wider western world, which habitually watches bad TV shows on streaming services. That applies to both men and women.

However, it does not apply to me because I very rarely watch TV.

Your sure men don’t feel envious of other men that women find charming and sexy and funny are you? Men that just walk in a as room and capture women’s interest? Your absolutely sure of that are you?

I have many male friends over the age of 30. They all have friends. I think it’s clear from the way you are interacting with people on MumsNet why you don’t

Indeed. I'm still friends with a bunch of people I've known from school- all over 30, we all have friends (including the men in the group). My husband has male friends and is over 30. My business partner's husband, also well over 30, also has several male friends- he was recently best man at his friend's wedding, my male cousin has a best mate and other friends, my uncle has friends, my dad had friends (before he passed away), the men I work with have friends and they are all over 30, I could go on and on.

In fact, I dont think I know of any man over 30 who literally has no friends. Therefore, Shuggles, by your own rationale, it is YOU who are lying.

I also think you have an erroneous view of the world.

I have never talked about my relationship with my friends beyond things like "BF proposed, we're getting married" and so on. Or given reasons why one didn't work out.

My DH and his brothers are all well over 30. As is my dad and my BIL and my uncles and all of my male friends (which I made while being the only woman in many classes/roles). They all have a circle of friends.

You're making it very clear on here that you don't have friends, and actually probably why you don't hear men talk like this. They likely stop talking when you appear.

You have the same feeble female brain as us, as you're confusing TV with real life.

I was the only female in one of my college classes. I had to listen to those male students talk about which girls on campus were doable.

I was the only female on my degree course. That was four years of hearing young men brag about the "hottie" they'd pulled last night. Spending time in labs overhearing them talking about whether or not they thought I would put out, or if they would bother trying because they thought I was "stuck up" (because I ignored a lot of them and just got on with my work).

I was called into meetings to confirm the conversations I'd overheard to help investigate sexual assault claims.

I had my male professors react with surprise when I was able to answer questions or give better explanations than my male peers. And you know that's because they looked at me in terms of my looks and not my mind.

I've heard colleagues in my jobs in retail, healthcare, automotive industry and now finance talking about what they think of the new girl(s) in terms of how attractive she/they are and whether they'd have a go if they were single.

I've had male colleagues talk to me about how gorgeous the new girl / the temp / Sarah from Ops is and whether I thought, as a woman, they'd have a chance to "get with her".

I've had my bum grabbed/slapped and been spoken to like I should be grateful for the attention, then a surprised/hurt reaction when I ha e stood up for myself. At work. In university classrooms. In the street.

But you know, despite working as a senior person in a very analytical role and being trusted to make decisions for a FTSE500 company, I must be lying and confusing the TV with my own life. Because you're a man and know about my life much better than me. And I obviously spend time watching soaps where these things happen, rather than doing anything more worthwhile with my time. Cos I'm a silly little woman.

@VickyPollard25 No, because I already knew it. That sketch backs me up.

So you leaned this from TV?!

😂😂😂

@VickyPollard25

Now speaking for all men.

I have many male friends over the age of 30. They all have friends. I think it’s clear from the way you are interacting with people on MumsNet why you don’t.

@IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos , we have received the mansplanation, so I want to add my apologies. Clearly we have both confused real life with TV 😂😂😂😂

@5128gap I'm also not sure why you are so keen to sway opinion on this.

Because some women have an erroneous perception of men that men are basically just women that look different. Women look through dating apps with their friends, so men must be doing the same thing. Women talk about their relationships, so men must be doing the same thing.

The above is not the case. Sex, love, and relationships are a solitary experience for men. We don't seek validation or approval from other men.

And as I said before, who do you think men would even share their sexual experiences with? Most men above the age of 30 don't have any friends.

The problem is @shuggles you can't prove a negative here. We can 'prove' (if you accept people's word on these forums as proof, as etiquette requires us to) that we know it goes on be relating to you our experience. You can only 'prove' you have no knowledge of it going on. And a lack of knowledge of something does not prove its non existence. I for example, have never heard two men discussing cycling. However I'm prepared to accept they do. I'm also not sure why you are so keen to sway opinion on this. If you're a man, what other men say about women is nothing to do with your life surely? We're not accusing you of being such a man.