I would swap with her in an instant

So put yourself in my shoes, I have never felt desired. Even my ex saw me as reliable, solid, financially able to support us. I've been a best friend, I've been an emotional crutch. But no one has ever fancied me

But how on earth would being served in a bar first or creepy men following you on the street help with this?

It's fine to want to be desired but the examples you've given that apparently incite envy in you are absolutely ridiculous.

Then make yourself more physically attractive. It's not difficult these days. Teeth, skin, hair, weight. All can be changed easily with injectables and meds. If you really think it will help.

You said you’d swap your financial stability and home to be as pretty but unemployed as your friend. No matter how you dress it up now, that’s nuts.

You are ridiculous!!

So many, many times, you’ve applied for a job, not got it, they’ve given it to someone more attractive, and then when it’s not worked out, they’ve called you and given you the job?

Really?

There’s always someone who’s holding a better set of cards though isn’t there. Whether it’s looks, health, wealth, brains, fertility. There’s always someone worse off and always someone better off.

I would say being financially stable and housed like the OP is, is one of the best cards you can hold.

In other words, unless her friend is 'lighting up the room' with her 'relentless positivity' she is just a 'plain, fat woman'. The poster has singled out this particular woman to say this about because she is fat and plan - the poster hasn't demanded that her better-looking colleagues light up the room with their jollity; they can exist as something other than their looks without being the pantomime comic

She mentioned those things because the entire point of the thread is that being attractive = everyone loves you. So, she cited a friend of hers who doesnt conform to typical western standards of "beauty" yet still has everyone wanting to be around her/be with her. It was an entirely appropriate example to make that personality and attitude is what makes someone attractive, not how they superficially look.

She even said in the post that she knows many very superficially attractive people who are dull and boring. She also didnt use the word "just fat and plain" so again, you are projecting here.

Well as someone who has assumed the mantle of 'jolly fat person' myself I understand. We often work hard at being more, to compensate for being less, as we see it. It can be exhausting, like a mask we have to put on before we leave the house.

In spite of being told I was pretty many times, I have always struggled with lack of self esteem over my looks and my body in particular, although I am not that overweight in the scheme of things. But being slim has always eluded me and I have often chosen to wallow in self pity at not being perfect. Not turning up to parties at the last minute and making excuses rather than leave the house feeling bad about myself on any given evening. I'm ultra hard on myself. That's the difference between me and her. She seems genuinely at peace with herself. Maybe she's not, but if she's pulling off a great act then it's a convincing one and it's working.

I've spent far too many hours and months and years of my life on self loathing and it's been wasted, pointless energy. I hate looking at photos of myself and always dodge the camera. Then in my fifties I realised that my favourite photos of my favourite people are the ones where they are looking happy, laughing and natural,even if they are not the most flattering photos. I realised that when I'm dead my children won't have many photos of me looking happy and carefree because I am always looking uncomfortable and uptight, worrying about my double chin or dodging the camera altogether. Whereas my sunshine-in-human-form friend posts loads of photos of her just having a fabulous time and doesn't seem to give a shit about whether they are flattering or not, no filters, no carefully chosen poses or angles. She looks like someone just loving her life and not over-thinking it.

I understand she's human and I'm sure she has her days like anyone else where she has pangs of self doubt, or just feels low. I get it. I know she's certainly dealt with plenty of the shit that life throws at all of us sometimes, but she just has a way of not wallowing and always seeing the positive. It's just her approach to life in general. It's a skill. Maybe learned, maybe inate, I don't know. All I know is, it's better than the alternative.

The reason I'm mentioning my experience is it's pointless to argue with the OP, because the feelings are coming from an irrational place. Although there's a slight pretty privilege, millions, indeed billions of ordinary people get jobs, find partners and go on to have ordinary looking kids. You don't have to be exceptionally head-turningly pretty to live a good life and to believe otherwise is a product of insecurity and irrationality.

You sound like you have low self esteem. I'm struggling to believe this is real. Your friend was upset and all you could think about was how jealous you are of her? Wtf

You are so full of jealousy it's unbelievable! Please get over yourself! She is unemployed, up to her ears in debt..............

This is the kind of irrational thinking I used to have as a teen and twenties, as I had dysmorphia- facial dysmorphia where I believed, completely truly, that I was terribly ugly and used to do things to try to make it better (make-up, thinking I looked better in the dark, never allowing people to see my natural face). I would also see very pretty people and just want to be them, even though I was blessed with lots of good qualities and advantages.

This was completely disordered thinking. As it turns out, I was reasonably attractive anyway, so the beliefs were completely false, and it also turns out that it's not the be all and end all of life so now I'm older I'm coping better so ageing is not as bad as I feared.

I still have the odd pang from the past, but I can see it was irrational and a sign of a disorder, not a realistic appraisal of the situation. It was a complete time-suck and I regret wasting at least a decade of my life on it!

I am not assuming that at all - you are missing the point.

The poster said So if my 'plain and fat' friend wanted to wallow and feel sorry for herself or constantly bang on about how everyone else was better looking than her then she'd be seen as that plain, fat woman first and foremost

In other words, unless her friend is 'lighting up the room' with her 'relentless positivity' she is just a 'plain, fat woman'. The poster has singled out this particular woman to say this about because she is fat and plan - the poster hasn't demanded that her better-looking colleagues light up the room with their jollity; they can exist as something other than their looks without being the pantomime comic.

Nor has she acknowledged her friend's right to exist as anything other than 'jolly woman' or 'fat, plain woman'. There's no question of her existing as (e.g.) 'woman who's a whiz at Excel' or 'woman who is really into horse-riding' or 'woman who moved house last year' or 'woman who organised the charity fundraiser'. If she doesn't conform to the 'jolly' expectation, she must be 'that plain, fat woman first and foremost'.

This. Your argument kind of collapses here doesnt it?

According to you, you should be living in the gutter and she ought to be a millionaire CEO by now. Yet thats not the case so maybe, just maybe, you are wrong OP.

She was still sacked for being useless even if she is pretty. It clearly didn't make a lot of difference.

Exactly! Why not skip the interviews, experience and qualifications bit, and just award jobs on headshots?

Yes. Doesn’t your post prove that this woman, despite being pretty, is a total mess — fired for what sounds like idiocy (I mean, most jobs don’t like it if you sleep in or just vanish in the middle of the working day, and it doesn’t take any intelligence to grasp this…?), broke, potentially homeless…? Not all the good looks and sexual attractiveness in the world are going to mitigate against this level of inability to cope with day to day life. Her former employer may be concerned about her, but he/she still fired her!

But you’ve got a good job, why didn’t they give it to someone prettier?

That's an interesting take.

Didn't RFT, but it MUST be reverse from a bitter 'pretty' because why unattractive person has it all and she has just been sucked regardless of her 'beauty'?

Years ago I was once pretty. I'm nearly 60 now, single with a modest income. When I was young people described me as looking like a doll. My best friend basically said the same as you. She said as a blonde pretty girl my life would be easier and guess what. She is the successful happily married one. I spent 28 years with the wrong man and split up at the age of 47. I did meet someone else who said to me. I bet you were pretty when you were young. Looks don't last and to secure a future based on looks is heading fir disappointment. people who are good looking want to be seen for mire than just their looks. I am far from pretty now but very happily single x

Yes this jumped out at me as well - men crossing the street would be scary not flattering.

I haven’t read the full thread OP but I have been wondering what changes you might want to make or be able to make in your own life so that you are happier and more content?