I would swap with her in an instant

Well, don't go clubbing with athletic beauties then! I'm not bad looking but I wouldn't go out with a bunch of stunners if I wanted to pick up blokes.

This is true. I am white, short, two stone overweight and will never tan. I even choose holidays abroad where I am less likely to be surrounded by beach ready twenty something year olds playing racket ball. Not because I don't want them to have their beach fit bodies but because I don't want to feel unattractive.

I agree.

I have two children. One is clever - really clever and kind, intelligent, sporty, great conversationalist, has a good sense of humour, makes a big effort to include everyone and puts themselves out there to mix. Very few good friends if any.

The other is empathetic, smart but not as clever as their sibling, fun and makes little effort. Surrounded by friends and popular in school with classmates and teachers alike, and chosen as the lead in school productions etc.

One is average looking and one is pretty......

Whether we like it or not, people are books judged by their covers.

Yes it will always be like this while people like you completely overlook all the troubles this woman has and concentrate solely on her looks.

You ARE the problem OP

@Cookiecrumblane this thread is a mountain of hypocrisy and virtue signalling, completely ridiculous. Of course, beautiful women tend to have a smoother ride in our society! The outcome can only be what they make of it but denying that it's starting with an advantage is silly.

I think the issues are complex.

I was fairly pretty in my younger days, and did receive a good share of attention.
I worked in a male environment, and often the only woman at meetings or social events.
Leary drunks would often target me in bars- I remember waiting in the departure lounge at my local airport for an early morning flight to London for work. It was mostly men in suits catching the flight, I too was wearing business attire.
I remember looking up from what I was reading, there were 20 or so men staring at me. Everytime I crossed or uncrossed my legs I could see the eyes on me.
It was not pleasant, I felt very uncomfortable- and this scene was repeated many many times.

I am in my 60s now, and seem to have joined the invisible older woman club.

And it is liberating, exhilarating, I love the fact that most men gaze straight past me.
I don't miss the objectification or attention in public one bit.

I agree.

There are also a disproportionate number of women who claim they were beautiful in their youth even taking into account that beauty is subjective.

In my lifetime I have known two beautiful women. With one woman, men approached her constantly on the street to tell her she was beautiful. Men we worked with flirted outrageously with her. Of course posters will shout that by now she’s old and fat and her beauty was a disadvantage to her. We aren’t in contact much anymore but the last I know about her is she’s happily married to a wealthy man , has three kids and models clothes.

I have known the other woman for thirty five years. I didn’t think she was beautiful but ten years ago I bumped into a mutual male friend who waxed lyrical about her beauty and how everyone at uni thought she was the most beautiful woman they’d ever seen) She has risen as high as she can go in her career (mid 40s) and does a lot of public speaking. She’s competes competitively at sports, is married, travels a great deal ,all on Istagram) and has a happy life. Life would very possibly have turned out the same whether she was pretty or not but the confidence she gained from being popular certainly helped and I know her personally so can say that with certainty.

People don’t want to think looks help but they do.
People want to say that being single is not an issue but if you are not single by choice, it is.

I'm not changing myself. I don't want to have straight hair, or a smaller nose or be a size six to compete with a 27 year old, 5"8 white woman with green eyes

I dont think you should "change" yourself either if you dont want to but it's a bit silly to moan about feeling unattractive and then say in the same breath you wont do anything about it. If being overweight and hairy bothers you, you absolutely can do something about that- same with having blotchy skin. You have the finances to address those things, many, many women do.

I have rosacea for example, and when it's bad it can make me look all red, spotty and blotchy, so I invested in good skincare/saw a dermatologist and now it's barely noticeable and I have great skin. But it involved some effort on my part, it didnt just magically disappear overnight because I was moaning about how unfair it was. I actually took action to fix it.

“Pretty privilege” absolutely exists and is completely unfair so you are quite right to a degree OP.
But what can you do? No point throwing your pinny over your head and sitting in the corner as my grandmother used to say.
You have to make the best of the other great attributes you have.
The world is unfair is many, many ways especially to women.

Agreed. All the decent men I know probably wouldn't even notice the random 30 year old blonde girl needing a hand with a cork. They'd be too busy focusing on the people they were already interacting with. Or talking to the interesting girl they like.

The fact there is a pretty girl in the room doesn't matter unless she's chucking herself at one of them, which none of them would find that attractive.

Even academic men will race across a room to unpop a cork for a 30 year old blonde woman

This sounds like something that someone would say who had learnt everything they know about people from films

Yes OP, people fancy attractive people. But you don't want to make yourself more attractive, so I guess that's it for you.

Do you just want to complain? Or do you want to be someone that someone fancies?

Because you're saying you don't care, then complaining about not being fancied an awful lot.

I wonder if there's something you aren't telling us OP.

I am very unattractive, have chronic illnesses, in low paying work and single. I would look at you and feel envy. You have more then you realise.

Exactly. Just when is this social advantage going to kick in then because its not happening right now is it???

This woman has no job, is losing her place to live, no partner and no friends by the sound of it. So where exactly is this social advantage? oh yes, silly me, I forgot- she's had a door held open by a random man and one crossed the street for her. How bloody lucky she is!

Some exaggerated fiction probably, I’ve almost got an image of this pretty woman bathed in a golden halo while men swoon, powerless at her feet.

Yes I admit pretty privilege exists, I’ve had it, but it’s actually really tiny in comparison to all the other things you have to deal with in life. Having people smile at you and compliment you can be nice sometimes, sure, but in normal life it doesn’t get you a free pass from real life issues. Pretty might bag you that handsome or rich guy but it won’t keep him, your utility company isn’t going to waive your gas bill because you’re pretty and the bank manager isn’t going to give you a mortgage because of your pretty smile.

Of course it’s nice to be pretty (if my memory serves me lol) I’d be lying if I said it wasn’t, but it’s not a guaranteed passport to an amazing life.

The fact remains, her response is envy. Envy and resentment. Which she is expressing fulsomely on this thread, along with self-pity.

That's what I'm commenting on.

But an ‘easier ride socially’ hasn’t made her able to hold down a job and remain solvent. This woman is crying on the shoulder of a woman she’s just met, so she seems unlikely to be surrounded by loving, concerned friends, or in a supportive relationship, or surely this wouldn’t be happening…?

Thing is, OP isn't wrong. I used to be stick thin and whilst not exactly gorgeous I was relatively good looking with a healthy sized chest and long, light blonde hair.
Then I became seriously ill and had to start taking steroid injections and went from a size 6 to a size 22 and I've sadly stayed there.

I cannot put into words quite how differently people treat me now, genuinely. It's not paranoia, it's not that subtle, it's blatant! Even my family notice it.
I don't think people do it consciously it's just deeply ingrained in our culture. People are naturally drawn to and therefore kinder to people who they deem to be attractive and/or slim and less so to those who aren't.
Same with disabilities and hence why it's taken until the last decade or two for people to be more accepting of disabled people.

Even in the animal kingdom, in litters, packs or groups of animals if one is born disfigured or noticeably different, the others tend to shun the poor disfigured one. Of course this doesn't make it ok for humans to behave like this, just because animals do it, but as a disabled person myself, I'd say it explains that it's a real behaviour that exists and isn't a taught behaviour! That it's not paranoia!

Yes it's very sad that OP has such a dislike of her own body/looks but sadly she's not wrong. This friend of hers will^^ have an easier ride socially. Maybe not circumstantially but definitely socially, 100%

And I want to add that (as you can see) this topic doesn’t go well over here.

Beauty / ugliness is quite the taboo on MN.

And it’s the ugly women who have to feel sorry for the pretty one’s.
Apperently no one’s life is worse than beautiful woman’s life! 🤣

Yes more important to be healthy for a long period than attractive.

Total nonsense.

@SerafinasGoose that's how I feel now, after all those years (decades) wasted flapping about appearance. I buy nice clothes, put on my make-up, appear clean and smell nice and then I leave the house and don't think about it again for the rest of the day. I wish I could truly not care, but this seems a reasonable compromise.

OP, I'm not saying looks don't matter, but it's also true you don't have to be a stunner to be socially attractive- socially attractive people tend to be friendly looking, have clean hair and clothes, engage in some obvious self-care (e.g. nice hair, jewellery, interesting bag) and show interest and attention to others. This is possible for pretty much anyone unless they have MH problems that prevent them showering or whatever.

"She was distraught, but even with all that was going on, she was served first and efficiently in the bar. Men held doors and beamed at her. They crossed the street to walk closer to her."

What the fuck did I just read?