I would swap with her in an instant

It isn't, and wouldn't be even if those people had said they aren't pretty. They merely said they are older, and in one case, bigger. All people who aren't pretty aren't ugly, anyway. You can certainly be average or plain.

I know you don't understand why your posts are not an eye-opening revelation to women receiving endless applause as you show us the light. I could explain it a third time and you still wouldn't understand.

I'd say it's not my problem, but sadly it actually is...women have to live with this endless nonsense. But I don't have to humour it.

That was me a good few years ago, OP. It happened from when I was 15/16yrs old and I’ve lost count of the times I wanted the ground to swallow me up when I was followed while being loudly catcalled, followed out into carparks, had men refuse to let me past them, grope me, not let me ride a bus or train in peace.
It did nothing for my self esteem - in fact it made me horribly self-conscious for most of my adult life.
I love the freedom of being older 😊

I didn't understand the first time so I am asking again because I genuinely don't get how I insulted all women in my first sentence.is it that you think I'm mansplaining or just that I shouldn't be allowed to explain where I was in a bad relationship with a beautiful woman and it wasn't a good fit. Which is what that wall of text was.
Please explain it because I genuinely want to know what I said wrong in my first sentence. Speak to me as if I'm five. I know I had a rant half way through about the worst relationship I had which I shouldn't have done because as someone else pointed out I painted all beautiful women with the same brush and that's my bad. I can't improve as a person unless I understand what I've said or done wrong.

@XChrome That's the implication.

“Men held doors and beamed at her. They crossed the street to walk closer to her” That… sounds awful, no? 🤯😂

I could explain again (because I said it the first time), but you wouldn't understand and frankly I'm scared of unleashing another avalanche of whatever the fuck that wall of text you bestowed upon us before this post is.

It may be an incredible revelation to you, but I absolutely assure you that anyone born female who reaches the age of 16 is very well acquainted with self-important men who judge you if you're not beautiful, and then if you are beautiful, but also judge you if you make too much effort to become beautiful, and find you to be the shallow baddie either way. And who then spend the next 20+ years lecturing you about it, and accusing you of being unreasonable and irrational ("shouted at" or whatever it was) before they've even started patronising and insulting you in the name of imparting their wisdom.

I suppose at least you're not comparing us to cars and then telling us off for not liking it like the last guy I saw on one of these threads. He thought he was a visionary too.

How am I insulting you all when I'm pointing out what goes through an average man's brain when they see a pretty girl. Or are you also male? In which case we've got very different real life experiences of over hearing arseholes at the pub who try to get off with the bar maid whilst there misses are at home.

You could well be right. It's just my experience. I didnt mean that all women who are attractive are like it, perhaps I was venting a long suppressed setbof difficult memories

You can improve looks. Spend some of your hard earned money on yourself. Hire a stylist, hire a make up artist to teach you techniques, book in with a professional salon to get your hair done and product matched.
Start getting your nails done, use face masks, start an exercise plan.
You can't change everything, but effort and money are a large part of physical appearance.

Firstly you have made many many assumptions . Secondly I have never dated anyone younger than me but i will try to explain the situation. I was 18 and she was 24. She chose me first. She asked me out. I like women who are self assertive and so I thought that we might be able to form a life together. She knew before she asked me out that I wasn't into one night stands and just wanted long term relationships. She was a PhD student at the same university. Makeup: To go literally across a road to the corner shop is a 30 second walk, yet it would take her 30 minutes to get ready even though she was fully dresse and already had lippy and a bit of foundation on. Humour... I am unfortunately quite funny as it was the only way for my bullies to stop punching me, chineese burns, stabbing me with compasses for 2 hrs every day. but I know that humour is subjective and that this doesn't suit everyone. However in the 6 ish weeks we dated she didn't laugh at anything. Nothing on the tele, nothing or anyone in real life. I asked her if she found things funny and her answer was 'rarely'. Wanting to go out every single night when you are both students is not sustainable, I completely agree that going to a night club twice a week is fine , which is as much as i could afford and whilst being a student you do actually have to do course work and revision. When we would get to the club at 10 he would spend at least 1 and a half hours redoing her make up and would get a bit of a hump if she didnt get someone try to hit on her. Teenager beaviour:
She was naturally very beautiful but couldn't see it in herself and needed external validation. Every day she would ask my housemates if she looked beautiful at least twice a day. She asked me 'why don't you get jealous when boys hit on me?' I said that I couldn't be jealous because of course they are going to hit on you look at you. "Yeah but don't you worry?" I responded with... if you were taking them into the toilets or started kissing them then I'd be worried. At which point she called me a f ING pussy and threw herself on the floor as a child wood do.
I left my own bedroom and slept downstairs. The breakup and retaliation: She said that if I wasn't getting angry that she went off and danced without me then I wasn't a man. Ten minutes later I broke up with her saying that I don't want to feel like I have to pretend to be angry because you want me to be. I said that isn't right. You shouldn't be seeking that kind of attention. Following day she spread a rumour that I was gay and couslnt get it up for her.. which I couldn't give 2 stuffs about. There were then a few other rumours which she started and then the final straw that I had a rape conviction. I phoned the police... who to begin with being 1995 and me a man just told me to get over it and there was no record. I then had to spend 2 years trying to avoid her because if she saw me she'd start yelling at me. I don't know if that's enough detail or not but I can only tell you how It was for me. Perhaps I made it sound worse than it was, but I really do have a very good memory and I do think the above is an honest account. There will obviously be bits In that relationship where I wasn't the angel, I do remember for example she had asked me to get some lemonade as me and my housemates were going to Tesco, and I completely forgot, but I apologised and she never brought it or anything else.real.up in an argument.. only ever the desire for me to be angry or jealous.

So you think being in one's sixties and being older and larger are synonomys for "ugly?" 🤔

At any rate, those are people saying how they feel. They aren't statements of belief about what is better in general.

@IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos I don't think anyone is saying "it's better to be ugly". For one thing, attractiveness is subjective.

Actually, that is what people have been saying. Which is why it's a good idea to read the thread before making such a blanket statement.

Example 1: "Now I'm much older and larger, I am invisible to those kinds of men. It's glorious. I can walk through the world without them noticing me or hassling me, and thank fuck for that."

Example 2: "I am in my 60s now, and seem to have joined the invisible older woman club. And it is liberating, exhilarating, I love the fact that most men gaze straight past me. I don't miss the objectification or attention in public one bit."

And there are other examples beyond that.

Would I be happier if I were more attractive? Would I be more successful? Who knows.

Statistically, the evidence shows that the answer to both questions would be "yes."

Not tooting my own horn but I'm pretty, like Kim k pretty and you're right there is such thing as pretty privilege, getting a lot of things free and men helping you ect however I get a lot of hate, I've had so many issues with neighbours or other women and creepy men. So it's not all that great I know if I didn't look the way I do I wouldn't have so much bother from others.

I don't think anyone is saying "it's better to be ugly". For one thing, attractiveness is subjective.

But what they are saying is to not compare yourself to other people. And if you're going to, it can't be solely on whether or not you or they are attractive and the impact that has/will have on your life.

For example, I have a great job, I own a home in a lovely area, I have a wonderful husband and a beautiful daughter (who I think one day people will say has pretty privilege...). Good friends, great family.

Would I be happier if I were more attractive? Would I be more successful? Who knows. It could be a worse scenario. I work in a very analytical position, where I need to be taken seriously. Would I be? Would my lovely husband have actually been attracted to me if I looked different?

None of it matters if you're happy with your life. And that happiness isn't solely based on how attractive you are.

THAT is what people are saying.

@TwigletsAndRadishes "Whatabout, whatabout, whatabout..."

That's irrelevant to my point, which is that attractive people are immensely advantaged compared to unattractive people. People trying to flip that around to argue that actually, it's better to be ugly, are completely disconnected from the real world.

If it's true that life is better if you're ugly, then why is it the case that the majority of people, both men and women, try to look presentable and the best version of themselves? How many men and women intentionally make themselves appear more ugly?

Well if that's how you measure Pretty Privilege then let's talk about Intelligence Privilege. Social Capital Privilege. Two Married Parents Privilege. Able Bodied Privilege. Good Speller Privilege. Charm and Personality Privilege. Confidence Privilege. Nice Accent Privilege. The Natural Athletic Privilege that successful sportspeople have that most of us aren't blessed with, meaning that they were always picked first to be on the school team and I never was. So what?

A while ago I read an article about white privilege as seen from a black perspective. Twenty years ago, a young black man might have said 'Can you imagine how it feels, having the same capability and the same qualifications as everyone else on the interview panel but not getting the job and always wondering if it's because I am black?'

Whereas this particular young black man did have the job. And he said 'can you imagine how it feels, having to go into work each day always wondering if I didn't actually get my job on merit, but because the employer needed to fill some BAME quota?'

She lost it because of a series of mistakes. She fucked up repeatedly. People who fuck up repeatedly are known as fuckups.
Now go pound sand.

Interested to know what type of job do you think I should do?

They crossed the street to walk closer to her.

I bet Wayne Couzens crossed the road for plenty of women, too

Something out a novel lol

Turn that around.

How do you know things would be better? How do you know you wouldn't be miserable about your looks for a different reason (people assuming you're thick, not taking you seriously in your career, not wanting a partnership with you because you're just a trophy).

You can apply all your logic to either scenario. Because no one has it perfect.

@Cookiecrumblane Agreed. Beautiful men and women who pretend that they're the victim in some weird convoluted way are completely unhinged and disconnected from the reality.

The data shows that people who are attractive are more likely to have career success, higher earnings, and have friends and relationships. No one can argue with facts.

360!