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Original poster

I would swap with her in an instant

560 replies

Cookiecrumblane · 28/07/2024 01:21

I am a sort of clever woman, financially secure, good at what I do. I have lots of friends and family around me, despite being single.
Today I met a woman through a friend, ten years younger than me. She was upset at losing her job last month, she had tried but made a serious of errors and was eventually sacked.
Even as she cried, she looked beautiful. She told me about her various problems, not being able to pay rent, her debt, her self esteem.
And I thought how much I would love to be that pretty. She was distraught, but even with all that was going on, she was served first and efficiently in the bar. Men held doors and beamed at her. They crossed the street to walk closer to her.
I have never had that. And so what good is education, my job, my success. Because ultimately she'll end up ok. She is more likely to get a job and when she does people will praise what she does much more than they praise people who look like me.
Is that mad? That I would swap with her in an instant, even to be jobless and at risk of losing my flat, just to feel visible?
I'm sure men don't feel this way.

OP posts:
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SerafinasGoose · 07/08/2024 22:53

IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos · 05/08/2024 21:14

@Cookiecrumblane I hope some of Mr Shuggles posts have reminded you of why male attention isn't the be all and end all in life.

😂

Lucy25 · 06/08/2024 00:01

shuggles · 04/08/2024 20:23

@VickyPollard25 @IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos Most of us know men like this.

And yet, none of you can ever cite specific examples. It's always vague statements like "men talk about their "conquests" with other men" but you can never recall a time when you actually saw this.

I'll agree it's not all men,

I don't agree that it's not all men. I'm saying it's a very very tiny number, or no men, because I've never seen this nonsense outside of school.

but I've worked in male dominated sectors for long enough to have come across the ones who like to tell everyone about their latest conquest or show people the "hot girl" they just matched with.

I have also worked with lots of men. And keep in mind that men have no reason to filter their words around me.

  • I've never heard men walking around work and talking about their "latest conquest." Keep in mind that the majority of men, from early 20s onwards, are in long-term relationships. Those who aren't tend to keep to themselves. The majority of men don't have "conquests," if that word means what I think it means.
  • I've never seen anyone walking around with a dating app to show everyone a "hot girl" that they just matched with. Again, keep in mind that most men get very few, or no, matches on dating apps.

I'm happy for you that you've never met any of these men. But don't dismiss the experiences of other women as not real because they don't match yours.

But again, when challenged on these points, none of you can ever cite specific memories or examples.

I swear that some of you people live on a different planet to me sometimes.

Edited

Wow, then l personally must be another person who’s naive, because l thought this forum, was for, to offer a listening ear, support, or at the very least not to just dismiss what they’re trying to get across.Or expect someone to give examples, memories for validation.Telling people they’re living on another planet, just because you don’t believe what they’ve said, how in any way is this helping.Just because you’ve not experienced this, doesn’t mean, it hasn’t happened.

VickyPollard25 · 05/08/2024 21:20

IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos · 05/08/2024 21:14

@Cookiecrumblane I hope some of Mr Shuggles posts have reminded you of why male attention isn't the be all and end all in life.

@Cookiecrumblane is now skipping through the streets and shouting for joy.

IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos · 05/08/2024 21:14

@Cookiecrumblane I hope some of Mr Shuggles posts have reminded you of why male attention isn't the be all and end all in life.

VickyPollard25 · 05/08/2024 21:12

realityhack · 05/08/2024 20:31

Do you know, I forgot. I was born in the 50s! Silly me, I forgot I'm twice my age!

I've just realised I've forgotten my age too, am I 90 or 18?

It's an absolute mystery - if only there were some way to know for sure? 🤔

@realityhack It’s so hard, isn’t it?Sometimes when I’m watching TV I get really confused and start to think it’s real.

If only there was a man to ask. I know - Ask Mr Shuggles. He’ll learn ya.

IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos · 05/08/2024 21:07

shuggles · 05/08/2024 21:04

@IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos That's very clearly and obviously a typo.

Your post said "You clearly know more about our own lives experiences than we do."

To which I responded, "The claims aren't just about your own lives and experiences though." - using the same words you had used.

But unfortunately, the "v" was dropped off.

Of course you'd say that now, but obviously you're too smart to make typos so we all know you're mistaken.

shuggles · 05/08/2024 21:04

@IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos That's very clearly and obviously a typo.

Your post said "You clearly know more about our own lives experiences than we do."

To which I responded, "The claims aren't just about your own lives and experiences though." - using the same words you had used.

But unfortunately, the "v" was dropped off.

IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos · 05/08/2024 21:01

shuggles · 04/08/2024 22:07

@IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos You're a man. Of course you think we women are mistaken. You clearly know more about our own lives experiences than we do.

The claims aren't just about your own lies and experiences though. Your claims are about how men talk and act in the workplace. I would also challenge men who made the same claims.

@5128gap I was not mistaken when I had to give evidence in a disciplinary at work when a group of male colleagues were sharing nudes of a young female colleague one had had sex with. I'm happy to offer this anecdote without fear of it being outing as sadly this isn't sufficiently uncommon as to identify me or her.

You're the first person to provide a specific example, but I imagine this scenario is very uncommon. Of all the men I have worked with, I have never seen anything that comes to close to this.

You've referred to my "lies" in this post.

Try again.

shuggles · 05/08/2024 20:58

@IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos However, you have called several posters liars

No I didn't. I suggested they were mistaken.

IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos · 05/08/2024 20:57

shuggles · 05/08/2024 20:53

@IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos But did they ever ask someone if they're sure how old they are??

The question was not to be taken literally. I was expressing my disbelief that someone who is seemingly a similar age to me found herself in a degree course in which she was the only woman (yes, that includes STEM), who was condescended by old professors, and who has experienced behaviour in the workplace that is nothing like anything I have ever seen.

I've seen plenty of bullying and disgusting behaviour and the workplace, but it has been equal opportunity- men bullying men, women bullying men, women bullying women, etc. I guess it's fair to say that society has made progress because people are now free to bully other people regardless of their gender.

I'm only going to say this once more.

Your experience is not the only experience that can be true.

I can believe that there were multiple women on your degree course, despite that not being my experience at university. I can believe you have no friends, despite knowing men of your age and older who have many.

However, you have called several posters liars because they recounted their lived experiences, purely because they don't match your own.

Try imagining not being you, and what might have looked different for you. I presume you at least know other adult humans, even if you have no friends? Do you genuinely believe that their life experience is identical to yours?

shuggles · 05/08/2024 20:53

@IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos But did they ever ask someone if they're sure how old they are??

The question was not to be taken literally. I was expressing my disbelief that someone who is seemingly a similar age to me found herself in a degree course in which she was the only woman (yes, that includes STEM), who was condescended by old professors, and who has experienced behaviour in the workplace that is nothing like anything I have ever seen.

I've seen plenty of bullying and disgusting behaviour and the workplace, but it has been equal opportunity- men bullying men, women bullying men, women bullying women, etc. I guess it's fair to say that society has made progress because people are now free to bully other people regardless of their gender.

IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos · 05/08/2024 20:45

shuggles · 05/08/2024 20:43

@realityhack I have dealt with actual bullies, so they said stuff that was a million times worse than anything that anyone has said on this thread.

But did they ever ask someone if they're sure how old they are??

realityhack · 05/08/2024 20:45

shuggles · 05/08/2024 20:43

@realityhack I have dealt with actual bullies, so they said stuff that was a million times worse than anything that anyone has said on this thread.

Just because something someone else said is worse does not mean your comment wasnt patronising and condescending AF and illustrates very nicely the kind of pathetic mansplaining women have to put up with as evidenced in this thread.

shuggles · 05/08/2024 20:43

@realityhack I have dealt with actual bullies, so they said stuff that was a million times worse than anything that anyone has said on this thread.

IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos · 05/08/2024 20:42

shuggles · 05/08/2024 20:39

@IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos Being an ignoramus is not a male-specific trait, and I have worked with plenty of ignoramii who were both male and female.

Do you mind if I ask what the field is that you are currently in? (Just a general description). It sounds interesting if it involves analytical work and generating papers, and maybe I could have a look at it.

I do mind. Especially because I've already said it previously, but because you know so much more than me you've decided to ignore it and focus on the fact you think I don't know my own life or age.

There are pages and pages of posters giving their experiences in this thread and because they are different from yours, you've said they're wrong. So you'd actually never get a job doing what I do. Because you have to be able to accept when you're wrong and change your position.

realityhack · 05/08/2024 20:41

Being an ignoramus is not a male-specific trait, and I have worked with plenty of ignoramii who were both male and female

Did they ever question if someone forgot when they were born?

shuggles · 05/08/2024 20:39

@IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos Being an ignoramus is not a male-specific trait, and I have worked with plenty of ignoramii who were both male and female.

Do you mind if I ask what the field is that you are currently in? (Just a general description). It sounds interesting if it involves analytical work and generating papers, and maybe I could have a look at it.

IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos · 05/08/2024 20:36

shuggles · 05/08/2024 20:32

You can believe me or not, but I have no reason to lie. I out performed 98% of my class, there was one who beat me on scores at the end. My friends from the course were two grades below me.

So if you performed well (as would be expected- the data shows that women consistently outperform men in academia) then why were your male professors surprised when you were able to give good answers? Are you sure they were surprised? Someone's facial expression may not reflect what they were thinking... or maybe they were surprised just because you gave a good answer, not because you are a woman.

Women still do not dominate the STEM subjects, in terms of numbers.

They do now.

Maybe you did a more female dominated subject, if you even went to university? That would explain why you don't believe there could only be one woman in a class. And maybe why you have no friends, because if there were no men and you spoke to women like you have us, they won't have warmed to you.

There were lots of women at university yes. I don't believe I spoke to women negatively though because I didn't speak to them much. I tend to keep to myself and I don't talk much to men or women.

Are you sure they were surprised? Someone's facial expression may not reflect what they were thinking... or maybe they were surprised just because you gave a good answer, not because you are a woman.

I'm sure. In the same way that a few months ago at work in a meeting full of men, a man explained a project to me incorrectly. When I corrected him, he suggested I read the paper which had kicked off the project. He was very surprised when my response was "maybe you should read the name of the person who wrote the paper". Because I had found the issue. I had done all the analysis and written the paper in question and I had gotten the project started.

There's some more evidence for you.

shuggles · 05/08/2024 20:32

You can believe me or not, but I have no reason to lie. I out performed 98% of my class, there was one who beat me on scores at the end. My friends from the course were two grades below me.

So if you performed well (as would be expected- the data shows that women consistently outperform men in academia) then why were your male professors surprised when you were able to give good answers? Are you sure they were surprised? Someone's facial expression may not reflect what they were thinking... or maybe they were surprised just because you gave a good answer, not because you are a woman.

Women still do not dominate the STEM subjects, in terms of numbers.

They do now.

Maybe you did a more female dominated subject, if you even went to university? That would explain why you don't believe there could only be one woman in a class. And maybe why you have no friends, because if there were no men and you spoke to women like you have us, they won't have warmed to you.

There were lots of women at university yes. I don't believe I spoke to women negatively though because I didn't speak to them much. I tend to keep to myself and I don't talk much to men or women.

realityhack · 05/08/2024 20:31

Do you know, I forgot. I was born in the 50s! Silly me, I forgot I'm twice my age!

I've just realised I've forgotten my age too, am I 90 or 18?

It's an absolute mystery - if only there were some way to know for sure? 🤔

IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos · 05/08/2024 20:26

VickyPollard25 · 05/08/2024 20:21

Are you really asking @IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos if she is sure when she was born?

What new level of idiocy is this?

Show quote history

There's always the chance I might have forgotten I'm actually a pensioner rather than the mother of a toddler!

IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos · 05/08/2024 20:25

realityhack · 05/08/2024 20:22

Am I sure about....when I was born?

Jesus, you really do think women know nothing

I am cackling. Wow- the stupidity of some men is really quite shocking isnt it?

Shuggles- tell us again why you have no friends, I could do with another laugh!!

😂

Do you know, I forgot. I was born in the 50s! Silly me, I forgot I'm twice my age!

IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos · 05/08/2024 20:24

@shuggles

Let's get some things clear.

I know how old I am.
I know when I was at college and university.
I know I was the only woman in my classes.
I know what has happened in my life.
I know when I had my first, second, and every other job.
I know the difference between real life and television.
I know when a man hates women. Like you do.

You do not know any of these things about any other poster on here.
You have not been there for our experiences.
You do not speak for all men.
You definitely do not speak for women.
You do not know more than an entire thread of women.

Get a grip on reality.

And no, the male undergrads did not out perform the female. Because there was only me in my year and none in the year before me. You can believe me or not, but I have no reason to lie. I out performed 98% of my class, there was one who beat me on scores at the end. My friends from the course were two grades below me.

Women still do not dominate the STEM subjects, in terms of numbers. There are more than there used to be, but they are still male dominated subjects.

Maybe you did a more female dominated subject, if you even went to university? That would explain why you don't believe there could only be one woman in a class. And maybe why you have no friends, because if there were no men and you spoke to women like you have us, they won't have warmed to you.

realityhack · 05/08/2024 20:22

Am I sure about....when I was born?

Jesus, you really do think women know nothing

I am cackling. Wow- the stupidity of some men is really quite shocking isnt it?

Shuggles- tell us again why you have no friends, I could do with another laugh!!

😂

VickyPollard25 · 05/08/2024 20:21

shuggles · 05/08/2024 20:09

@IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos I wasn't even born when you think I had my first job. I'm also a Millennial.

Are you sure about that? Because for people of my generation, universities had already become female-dominated by then. I remember countless videos online of people crying doom about the end of men, as men were seemingly dumb, not going to university, and not getting worthwhile jobs. By the time I was in university, the majority of undergraduates were women, and many younger academics were also women- it was only among senior professorships that men still dominated.

Are you really asking @IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos if she is sure when she was born?

What new level of idiocy is this?