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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Not trying to be inflammatory but why do people *need* more than two kids?

365 replies

ConstantlyFuriosa · 27/07/2024 05:01

Just that.

OP posts:
soakingupthesun · 27/07/2024 13:56

Extra organs ?

Aerialpigeon · 27/07/2024 13:51

What’s wrong with hand me down clothes?

even our eldest gets hand me downs from her cousins and stuff off Vinted. Most of their clothes are second hand apart from a few new things they get to choose (and shoes - we get those new now after the smelly Vinted football boots incident). I thought this was being savvy and sustainable.

Also, with regards to the benefit cap, a parent may decide (or even carelessly/accidentally) have another child, does the government not still have a duty of care to the older siblings not to leave them in grinding poverty because there are too many mouths to feed?

ItsAlrightDarling · 27/07/2024 13:43

Ragwort · 27/07/2024 13:40

user that's a very interesting point, I'd love to hear more from people who grew up in 'larger' families about how they feel. Both my DH and I grew up with more than one sibling each but can honestly say we have no meaningful relationships with our siblings ... not falling our or NC but just very, very different people.
I read on here about wanting a 'large family to sit round the dinner table with in the future'. I can't honestly remember the last time I sat down with all my siblings. Again, this strikes me as something the parent wants ... not necessarily what the DC in big families want or appreciate.
And I am now at the age where my friends and I are caring or supporting elderly parents ... I assure you it's one of the major points of friction at the perceived (or real) lack of equally sharing responsibilities. In my wider circle I can't think of any family where care is lovingly and happily shared .. so many fallings out and bad feeling ... and that's well before any inheritance discussions.
I am sure there are some really happy 'Walton' style families around ..... but not in my experience.

Conversely I’m an only child and have chosen to have a larger family. Caring for your (divorced) parents as an only child isn’t a bed of roses, either. I am solely responsible for them.

Ragwort · 27/07/2024 13:40

user that's a very interesting point, I'd love to hear more from people who grew up in 'larger' families about how they feel. Both my DH and I grew up with more than one sibling each but can honestly say we have no meaningful relationships with our siblings ... not falling our or NC but just very, very different people.
I read on here about wanting a 'large family to sit round the dinner table with in the future'. I can't honestly remember the last time I sat down with all my siblings. Again, this strikes me as something the parent wants ... not necessarily what the DC in big families want or appreciate.
And I am now at the age where my friends and I are caring or supporting elderly parents ... I assure you it's one of the major points of friction at the perceived (or real) lack of equally sharing responsibilities. In my wider circle I can't think of any family where care is lovingly and happily shared .. so many fallings out and bad feeling ... and that's well before any inheritance discussions.
I am sure there are some really happy 'Walton' style families around ..... but not in my experience.

TwistedSisters · 27/07/2024 13:36

TheHeadOfTheHouse · 27/07/2024 06:12

From what I’ve observed from knowing families with 3 or more children is that they aren’t brought up properly imo.

yeah they do extra activities and go on holidays, but that doesn't mean the child’s wellbeing and needs are fulfilled.

with each child people have, the parents standard of care declines. I don’t believe you can have 3 or more children and fulfil all their needs and shape them into a well rounded, decent, unscathed adult.

Things get missed the more children you have like:

  • dental hygiene
  • personal hygiene
  • clean bedding, clothing etc
  • the child being able to have their own bedroom (this becomes really important as they reach puberty)
  • helping with homework and extra needs children may have like speech therapy etc
  • one to one time with their parents
  • shoes and clothes that aren’t handed down and fit properly.
  • teaching children things like manners, respect etc

The things above take up a hell of a lot of time and there’s no way they’re done properly with more than 2 children.

Yes you can see this with William and Kate, poor little Louis, so clearly deprived and in need of a visit to the dentist 🙄😂.

This is one of the most ignorant posts I've ever read. I actually think the people with 3 or more kids tend to be the uber wealthy ones, who can afford to send them all to private school etc. The middle classes tend to stick at 2.

You clearly feel you couldn't look after 3 yourself, and that's fine. But there are thousands of families who mange to look after more than 2 children and ensure they have clean bedding fgs.

MadMaxHasSandInHisCrack · 27/07/2024 13:35

TheHeadOfTheHouse · 27/07/2024 06:12

From what I’ve observed from knowing families with 3 or more children is that they aren’t brought up properly imo.

yeah they do extra activities and go on holidays, but that doesn't mean the child’s wellbeing and needs are fulfilled.

with each child people have, the parents standard of care declines. I don’t believe you can have 3 or more children and fulfil all their needs and shape them into a well rounded, decent, unscathed adult.

Things get missed the more children you have like:

  • dental hygiene
  • personal hygiene
  • clean bedding, clothing etc
  • the child being able to have their own bedroom (this becomes really important as they reach puberty)
  • helping with homework and extra needs children may have like speech therapy etc
  • one to one time with their parents
  • shoes and clothes that aren’t handed down and fit properly.
  • teaching children things like manners, respect etc

The things above take up a hell of a lot of time and there’s no way they’re done properly with more than 2 children.

Not the case here. My 3 (ages 3 - 9) are very well brought up, people always comment on their manners.

Just back from a hotel stay and ours were the only kids at dinner in the hotel restaurant not using ipads/tablets, but sitting up and speaking to us, talking about our day, playing I Spy etc.

Of course clothes can be handed down, if still in good condition! Shoes are always new.

We sat down as parents and worked out our week so each child has 1 to 1 time with each parent.

We had 3 because we wanted to. We love it.

reallytimetodeclutter · 27/07/2024 13:33

Yumyumm · 27/07/2024 05:37

The people I know with 3+ kids are shm and don't have careers. I often get the feeling they're trying to fill a void - they're bored/lonely etc and can't afford the children they have, but keep going anyway. People on here will shoot me down, but I don't know any women with 4 kids that's got a great job!
One person I know has 8 kids!! Though they can afford it as her husband earns enough.

It may be unusual but my mum had more than 3 and had a great job. She was the breadwinner at times, too!

reallytimetodeclutter · 27/07/2024 13:32

Loads of variations, I think.

You might have 3 when you can afford it and then fall on harder times. You might accidentally get pregnant with a third and not want to terminate. You might meet a new partner and want a child together. You might just love having children and/or see raising them as a vocation.

I've never thought to ask my mom why she wanted 5 kids!

TwistedSisters · 27/07/2024 13:29

Yumyumm · 27/07/2024 05:37

The people I know with 3+ kids are shm and don't have careers. I often get the feeling they're trying to fill a void - they're bored/lonely etc and can't afford the children they have, but keep going anyway. People on here will shoot me down, but I don't know any women with 4 kids that's got a great job!
One person I know has 8 kids!! Though they can afford it as her husband earns enough.

Why is a career the be all and end all? Why can't someone be happy and fulfilled by something other than work?

wonderfulthingabouttiggersis · 27/07/2024 13:26

Once more with the absolute barmy MN opinions. I mean the posters who think more than 2 children means no one gets their teeth brushed, or they’re expecting state handouts, you can’t really believe this surely?

T1Dmama · 27/07/2024 13:24

Well the answer is no one needs children, generally people want them though….
I think lots have a third hoping for the opposite sex to the first 2… I knew someone who said they’d keep going til they had a boy, but stopped after 6 girls!!… when I was young there was a family of 13, the mother divorced the dad when he had a vasectomy.. he didn’t want anymore and she did! It was really sad as the older kids seemed to raise the younger ones!
I personally agree with the benefit cap for 2 children… it doesn’t affect families that already had more than 2 when the cap was introduced, so families choosing to have more than 2 since the cap was introduced has made an informed choice to have more. Other countries have gone further and actually fine you in form of taxation if you have more than 1 or 2 children. We certainly need something to reduce the population.

ItsAlrightDarling · 27/07/2024 13:22

Some people are more efficient with their time than others I guess. For example I don’t watch TV, never have, so that probably frees up some more time that others don’t have.

user98265374687 · 27/07/2024 13:17

I don’t know anyone from a large group of siblings that has decided to have more than 2 or the occasional 3 themselves.

WigglyVonWaggly · 27/07/2024 13:09

SwingTheMonkey · 27/07/2024 05:27

We did ask ourselves that. Luckily the answer was yes. We’ve 4 children, all at private school and we’re currently on a 3 week holiday, so I’d say our kids were doing ok.

Not everyone with more than 2 kids is living on the breadline.

It’s not just about the financial impact though, it’s about how much time parents have for each of them when there are four. I’d struggle to help with four lots of homework every night, parents evenings, school runs and the logistics of getting four kids to clubs, parties etc etc. If you can manage all that you’re more organised than me! I found with three that they weren’t really going to benefit from us adding a fourth child to the family.

Stepawayfromthecomputer · 27/07/2024 13:06

I'd imagine some can comfortably have 4 and give them everything they need in life, others have one and struggle. Maybe some posters are judging by their own parenting standards 'I can't cope with my two so how could anyone cope with more?'.

ItsAlrightDarling · 27/07/2024 12:57

newusername2009 · 27/07/2024 11:43

I have 4 and a career thanks

I was just thinking I ought to tell my team of 45 that I don’t have a career. They’ll be pleased to hear that they don’t have to turn up to work on Monday morning!

TwistedSisters · 27/07/2024 12:50

FateReset · 27/07/2024 05:24

This puzzles me too. You would think, after the second child they would ask themselves if they can afford to have a third and give it a good upbringing, without the first ones missing out.
I sort of understand when people have 2 boys yet desperately want a daughter and had hoped their second was a girl, this seems a fairly common reason for having 3+ kids.

Why the assumption that the jump from 2 to 3 must put financial strain on, and not the jump from 1 to 2?
There are many many people who can quite comfortably afford 3 kids - or more - without compromising on anything.

BeautyPageantDropout · 27/07/2024 12:38

Warmhandscoldheart · 27/07/2024 10:18

Only goats 'need' kids, humans have children because they want to.
Just that!

what a burn...

ll09sm · 27/07/2024 12:36

People find themselves ‘needing’ all sorts of things when someone else is paying for it.

The hysterical shrieking about two child benefit cap falls in the same category. Calling it draconian. No one is stopping you from having kids. Just don’t expect others to pay for your life choices.

Longma · 27/07/2024 12:36

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines. at the request of it's author.

Longma · 27/07/2024 12:33

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ChallahPlaiter · 27/07/2024 12:25

PuddingAunt · 27/07/2024 09:57

I don't think it's racist. It's a clash of values. My religion says that contraception was sinful.
Many people say that it's morally wrong to have "too many" children.
Benefits per child does create a perverse incentive.

Of course it’s racism if it disproportionately negatively affects certain groups of people

HappyWorkingMummy · 27/07/2024 12:21

ConstantlyFuriosa · 27/07/2024 05:01

Just that.

It's about wanting not needing. Same for any number of kids.

Really odd post, OP.

Zwicky · 27/07/2024 12:05

Nobody needs any children. It’s absolutely bonkers that people are claiming those who have 3+ children drifeted there through sheer boredom, are stealing their futures by mapping out their lives to be future carers, can’t get them to wash, clean their teeth, change their beds and buy shoes, can’t spend time with them or help them with homework, and either have to be on the breadline or mega wealthy and the children are raised by nannies and schools, but one less child - the “needed” 2 children - are all normal middle income families who wouldn’t dream of making their dc share a room or wear hand me downs or claim benefits or use nannies or private schools to “raise their kids for them”. As an aside I didn’t know that if you were and only child or one of 2 then you were off the hook in terms of doing anything for your elderly parents. I’m one of 4, but my mother always was a devious bugger. I guess I will continue to visit.

I have 4. I don’t “need” them. I want them - all of them. I have a successful career (full time nhs band 7 clinical role with leadership and educational responsibilities - not a brain surgeon or stock market trader but a perfectly decent job). I’ve never used a nanny or private school or claimed benefits (used to get cb when it was universal but don’t now). They all have their own room but have all shared through choice at various points. They all get new shoes. No fillings (4 sets of braces) but we have had to get private dental as we are in a dental desert. They strip their own beds and make them up and really are old enough (14+) to put a wash on anyway, even if they were only children. They can all cook. They have all (so far) done well academically although one has needed loads of extra support (including speech therapy - not sure why anyone would think he couldn’t have this as part of a bigger family) as he had significant developmental delay as well as some health needs but is doing incredibly well. All have done several extra curriculars including 2 in sports at county level. 2 are now at (good) universities.
I did take 7 full years out to be a sahm. I don’t think it was a bad thing to do and, although it was difficult initially to get my career back, it was certainly possible. I was never bored or lonely as a sahm, I really enjoyed it, and I finished my masters pt in that period and some bank work and helped grow DHs business. I will still have 40 years of full time work when I get to 68 (will go pt earlier if poss) - 7 years doing something different is no big deal. My dh is self employed and earned enough to support us when I was a sahm (plus I did have some income and we deliberately moved to a cheap area and aren’t big spenders anyway).
Raising my children has been the biggest pleasure and privilege of my life. It’s really nothing to do with me if other people can’t get more than 2 dc to brush their teeth and are maxed out after stripping 2 beds. I can - I can do lots of things really quite well. You can be only responsible for yourself and not brush your teeth properly or change your bed. Not entirely sure whats wrong with second hand clothes. The biggest Vinted Queen I know has no dc at all.

newusername2009 · 27/07/2024 11:43

Yumyumm · 27/07/2024 05:37

The people I know with 3+ kids are shm and don't have careers. I often get the feeling they're trying to fill a void - they're bored/lonely etc and can't afford the children they have, but keep going anyway. People on here will shoot me down, but I don't know any women with 4 kids that's got a great job!
One person I know has 8 kids!! Though they can afford it as her husband earns enough.

I have 4 and a career thanks

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