To think vapes are not good for society

@DatingDinosaur
Anyone using a vape as a smoking cessation tool would be more careful. So if you want to blame vapers littering, blame the teenagers who vape for show.

Really? I don't think you can assume that adults would be more careful or blame teenagers exclusively.

"Either an awful lot of vapers accidently lose this stuff or vapers are the type of people who drop litter."

No, thoughtless, selfish and inconsiderate people are the type of people who drop litter because they just don't care about anything other then their own selfish selves.

Anyone using a vape as a smoking cessation tool would be more careful. So if you want to blame vapers littering, blame the teenagers who vape for show.

A heart attack is probably the best way to go. Looking at mother and her side of the family really puts the fear in me. Well, terror really.

Re the smells - yes, some people clearly make a big deal of creating maximum smell and max smoke cloud. I generally don't vape in front of anyone else but on the two occasions I have (ex and mother) they were confused by a vape that doesn't smell. They thought they all stank of rancid fruit!

It's different
Getting nicotine off a cig is like drinking vodka to get drunk compared to a vape is like drinking beer to get drunk
Most people vape a lot more but a drag or two as it's not like you have a whole cigarette to finish

I'm part of a litter picking group and the amount of vape rubbish - packaging and discarded vapes - is huge. One of the most common things we pick up now are smashed vapes with wires, batteries etc scattered around and getting into the environment.

Either an awful lot of vapers accidently lose this stuff or vapers are the type of people who drop litter.

My Elf bar is 20mg - which is 2%. Bought from a reputable shop and not knock off from a bloke down the pub.

The link in the OP's op references heart attacks.

Edit: Yes vape shops sell different strengths. Disposable vapes are rarely anything other than 20mg (2%).

How many heart attacks have been caused by vaping? This is news to me.

BTW, not only do shops sell many strengths of vape, but 2% is unheard of. I don’t think I’ve ever seen it except in dilutable salt form.

Not strictly speaking true. Pure nicotine would be 100% (which is basically rat poison). The highest strength nicotine vape/eliquid you can buy is 2%. Vapes can come in different strength nicotine, including zero. Sadly, shops only seem to sell disposable vapes with 2% nicotine (the max strength) so it's no wonder the latest fad kids are into is getting them into bother. Vaping too much/too quickly is what causes the heart attacks as it's a stimulant and that's how it kills rats (notwithstanding the spiked vapes which are from dodgy sources anyway).

There are only 4 chemicals in a vape (which are still, largely an unknown quantity in terms of harm). A tobacco cigarette has hundreds of carcinogenic chemicals which are known to clog up your arteries and lungs with tar and poisons. It's not the nicotine that does the long term damage - nicotine's only purpose is to get you addicted to a corporate product so they can sell more/make a profit.

I think disposable vapes should be zero nicotine and only available to over 21s although that still wouldn't stop kids doing it, it might stop them becoming addicted to the nicotine

The NHS endorses vaping as a smoking cessation method. It would be nice if it was on prescription but I doubt that will ever happen as it would be basically endorsing a chemical addiction. If it was to be prescribed, would it be put into the same category as methadone for heroin addicts? Even Nicotinell vapes/patches/lozenges are higher nicotine strength than most cigarettes.

As a stop smoking tool, (non disposable) vapes are good because you have more control over the nicotine levels and can reduce it to zero. So then you're just left with the hand to mouth habit and timings (eg after a meal) to overcome.

I shall get off my soapbox now

Really shocked to see how many of them end up as litter, and how shops like asda freely advertise them in the entrance to the store.

I find the scented ones highly intrusive - the smell gets everywhere, even outdoors....I can smell it when someone drives past vaping. I wish they could all be made scent free.

I read that vaping isn't good for people. I'm ambivalent about people vaping. Second-hand cigarette smoke made me feel ill, made my clothes and hair smell, and that was my objection to people smoking. I'm not affected in the same way by vaping. The sickly, sweet smell of vapes is nothing compared to cigarette smoke, and purely from that point of view, I'm happy for people to vape.

Vaping is so very easily available. It's cheap, it's accessible, it's portable, you can do it in public.

I was thinking though, watching people vape recently, about the intake being much higher than traditional smoking. A traditional smoker isn't sucking on a cig as many times in an hour as someone with a vape in their hand. Multiply that over 24 hours and it's quite eye-opening.

Smokingvrates in Australia are NOT higher than in comparable countries where vaping is allowed. That is just misinformation put out by the vaping lobby. For example Australian smoking rates are 13% compared with UK at 14%. In any case vaping restrictions were only introduced very recently and have not yet had a chance to affect smoking rates. The real reason the regulations have been loosened recently is due to the Australian political system which means that the government often has to compromise in the with minor parties as a trade off to get more important legislation passed.

Interesting to see a couple of posters talking about positive effects on mental health. I stopped taking AD medications last year after decades of needing them. So diagnosed in the days it was shameful to be on them.

I'm starting to think it is not a coincidence that I also took up vaping last year.....

I wasn't more than a very occasional smoker so I never had a regular stream of nicotine in me, I'd get a head rush from the odd smoke.

There are obviously a lot of benefits to nicotine which tend to be suppressed by the media and the medical profession.

I don't vape every day, but it's helpful in many ways.

However, it's like anything, too much alcohol etc is also going to cause problems.

I joked with someone the other day that sugar, caffeine and nicotine are basically keeping workplaces/society going at the moment.

But then I realised it's not really a joke....if we lose those things now, everything will fall apart.

Whoever mentioned Darwinism…what the fuck for? Vapes aren’t going to kill anyone.

Anyway, roll on the legalisation of cannabis.

Personally I think disposable vapes should be banned, and actually they are being in many countries. From an environmental point of view they are horrendous.
As to how to stop under 18s getting hold of vapes, I have no idea honestly. Alcohol, cigarettes and drugs are also illegal for young people, but legislation hasn't had much more impact in preventing young people taking them up than with vapes. There is an argument that young people who start vaping may otherwise have taken up smoking - from that perspective it is likely better to vape because the harm of smoking is considerable. The harm of vape is, as far as currently known, much smaller. Obviously it's not possible to prove either that those people would otherwise have smoked, or that vaping is definitely safer than smoking, since it has only been around for 20 years or so - there's no long term data yet. But data currently available demonstrates vaping is significantly safer.

@MeouwCat the level of nicotine is limited by EU regulation so that it is comparable to cigarettes. Anecdotally I imagine the difference you speak of is down to the fact that smoking is limited - you smoke 1 cigarette and then you get on with your day. Another cigarette in a hour or so. But with vaping people can just keep using it, and inside, so overall they might consume more nicotine over the same time period (eg a day) vs a cigarette. Hopefully that makes sense

In Australia people under 18 now need a prescription to buy vapes. Adults can buy them over the counter but only from a pharmacy and in a very limited range of flavours. Also you can only vape in places where smoking is allowed. However there is a black market, but at least it has stopped people vaping in cafes and on public transport.

Vaping is great for smokers looking to quit. It cuts their risk of a raft of smoking related health issues. Unfortunately the tobacco companies saw it as a way to save and future proof their businesses. The companies weren’t getting the numbers of new smokers they needed to sustain their business model. They moved into vapes and actively marketed vaping at children. Now they have a huge market of teenagers who will be buying their products for years because they’re so addictive.

In general I agree with you, especially with regard to children taking up the vaping habit and getting addicted to nicotine.

Smoking is also terrible for society, and I grew up with dyed in the wool smokers even though I never smoked myself and nor did my sister.

However, my very elderly mother has now quit smoking in favour of vaping. Still addicted to nicotine of course, but after 63 years of 50 cigarettes a day it's as far as she is willing or able to go (she had to after a severe dose of pneumonia almost killed her).

Do I prefer to be with her when she is vaping or did I prefer breathing in the thick cloud of smoke that followed her everywhere when she was on the cigarettes? I'll take the vape thanks.

I think that vapes do have their place for getting people off cigarettes, cigars or pipes. That's it though, and all should be the rechargeable vapes. Single use ones should be phased out because of plastic waste, which is a direction we do seem to be moving in. None should ever be sold to teenagers or younger children, which should be rigourously policed (easier said than done perhaps, but it needs to happen).

@nearerthanfar Very interesting perspective. I would be interested in your opinion on how to stop under 18s getting their hands on vapes. And also the catastrophic environmental impact of the batteries being discarded.

Full disclosure: I work for a vaping company. Regulations on ingredients and marketing are extremely strict and, in this country, overseen by the MHRA (the same body who regulate pharmaceuticals). Any e-cigarettes containing spice and THC are illegal, most likely bought from dodgy online sites and sold to minors without the mandatory age verification that is required by law.
People who vape, generally love vaping. I don't understand the appeal personally, but then I have never smoked either. The amount of evidence suggesting that vaping has helped to decrease smoking rates is enormous. It has been endorsed by the NHS for this purpose.
Australia have long had a policy of only providing vapes on prescription and this is now being scrapped in favour of allowing over-18s to buy them (from pharmacies) because their smoking rates are far higher than comparative countries where vapes have always been available without prescription.

Agreed that vaping is SO addictive.

I’ve never been a smoker-smoker, but have always had the odd fag on a night out, during stressful periods eg my dissertation, or as a special treat during stressful times. Probably between one cigarette a month and one every six months. I don’t get addicted. My DH is the same.

When vapes came out, we both tried it and got hooked. It was SO hard to break the addiction. It’s just too convenient, you can puff away indoors. It’s a totally different beast.

I still have a single fag every month or so, and enjoy it as a treat. But I can’t touch vapes, or I know I’d be all-in on vaping again.

The number of children/teenagers vaping is a big concern. These children would not be smoking cigarettes to the same degree. Their overall nicotine intake is probably higher than previous generations.

I think they need to ban the disposable ones and the flavours.

People enjoy vaping. They enjoy drinking alcohol and coffee. They enjoy eating cake.

Asceticism is boring.

I gave up smoking years ago thanks to vapes and still vape now. I absolutely love it and feel it helps with anxiety. I don’t drink, do drugs or have any other real vices and enjoy it too much to give up. Is it bad for society? Maybe under 18’s or people starting without having smoked. I don’t think it’s great but neither is excess alcohol or drug consumption, I think vaping can be a crutch for some (like me) and in the grand scheme of things I don’t think it’s a big deal.