To think vapes are not good for society

@Tourmalines
Australia has banned the possession and sale of electronic cigarettes which contain nicotine since Jan 2009, because they classify nicotine (when not used as replacement therapy or in cigarettes) as a poison. This is why people require a prescription to legally purchase and use nicotine-containing vapes until October this year.

www.racgp.org.au/afp/2015/june/e-cigarettes-and-the-law-in-australia

No. I’m not wrong . I’m correcting you what you said about Australia having a long policy of banning vapes . As a consumer anyone could buy vapes up until now. July 2024 . That’s when the ban came in . And that’s exactly what I said .

@Tourmalines I’m sorry but you are incorrect. You currently need a prescription to buy vapes in Australia, but the law has recently changed, meaning that from October this year people will be able to buy e-cigarettes from pharmacies without a prescription.

www.health.gov.au/news/changes-to-vaping-in-australia-from-1-july#:~:text=From%201%20October%202024%2C%20people,appropriate%20medical%20advice%20and%20supervision.

No , Australia has not had a long policy of only providing vapes on prescription. You could buy them anywhere. Nothing like the Uk though . The policy has just come out in July . Now under 18 need a prescription and so do over 18 until September. After September over 18 can get from a pharmacy without prescription. Our smoking rates are also not higher .

Do you really think anyone cares

Frankly I would rather look at an adult puffing away on a vape than someone with a permanent cringe.

I smoked for many years. Tried so many times to give up, patches. hypnotherapy etc. Couldnt. Managed to give up by vaping. Success! However I now feel vapes are worse than cigarettes because you can do them almost anywhere, all the time. They're even more addictive than cigarettes. And there's no help from the NHS to quit, believe me, I've tried. And I've vaped now for 8 years and I definitely feel they're making me ill. But I'm totally addicted. What to do?

And the disposable ones, in bright colours and sweet flavours are totally aimed at kids and should be banned, both for them and the environment.

I wish there was a drug like Ozempic that would stop me craving nicotine, it's a horrible addiction.

😂😂😂

I'll sleep better tonight knowing this. Thanks for the constructive contribution to this discussion

Good job that those of us that vape don't care if someone cringes!

Why, would you cringe at someone wearing a nicotine patch or using gum?
Fuck it, maybe they should just go back to smoking and then people can whinge about that I mean who cares if you're killing yourself with cigarettes, someone might cringe at you if you try and quit with a vape

So…like water slurping.

🙄

Er no.. like dummies 🤷‍♀️

Right, pacifiers like water slurping? I wouldn’t ban water slurping but I would tax it heavily.

They're like pacifiers for adults & horrendous for the environment. Completely banned in some countries for good reason

"There is a reference in the BBC article to cardiac arrest, but that’s about dodgy vapes with spice in them."

Ah, fair enough. I've read elsewhere (and some time ago, thinking about it) about the connection with nicotine overdose and cardiac arrest due to the fact that nicotine is actually a poison and over-use/high dosage causes the heart to beat faster/too fast because it is a stimulant. It stimulates the heart too much and the heart can't cope.

This was before the nicotine content restrictions were brought in for eliquids and you could buy 'neat' nicotine concentrate to dilute. All very unregulated at that time because it was a new thing and you could buy tanks holding a lot more than 2ml too. I think before disposable vapes were invented.

Then it got regulated. Then disposable vapes were invented to take all the hassle out of weighing and measuring. And then a whole vape-culture monster was invented.

Sorry, can’t see any heart attack links about normal vape use. There is a reference in the BBC article to cardiac arrest, but that’s about dodgy vapes with spice in them.

(Not to minimise the issue, but when I hear about the dangers of spice I just can’t help thinking of Dune, the Bene Gesserit and the Fremen.)

I agree with this.

The fact is vaping is far, far less harmful to health and way less objectionable than tobacco smoking.

There is no tar to cause harm, vapes don't produce nicotine staining to teeth, fingers, walls etc.
The vapour will not make your clothes stink.

I totally agree that those aimed at children should be banned, along with single use.

But vaping is surely the greatest step forward away from smoking.

I cringe every time I see an adult puffing away on on a vape.

Agree with you.
I'll stop vaping when alcohol is banned

I was a smoker from about the age of ten or twelve and had tried everything to give up over the years - patches, hypnotherapy, gum, cold turkey etc. I managed to give up a few times but always ended back on the smokes. I bought an ecig more out of curiosity than having any thoughts on quitting smoking. I haven't smoked a single cigarette since the day after I first vaped. I have many friends who have also switched from being heavy smokers to vapers.

In terms of it's benefit or not to society, I would look at the horrific statistics on smoking-related illness and death before deciding if you really want to push back against what is beyond doubt the most successful smoking cessation aid ever.

Is it addictive? Sure, though not as addictive as cigarettes in my experience. When I was a smoker I would be climbing the walls going more that an hour or so without a cigarette. As a vaper, I'll vape frequently when I can but on those occasions when I can't (like being on a plane, train etc) it's no big deal.

Even if it is addictive, so what? What are the consequences? Are people turning to crime or prostitution to feed their addiction? Are alleged addicts actually causing themselves harm? Well there is little to no evidence that vaping is harmful, assuming the quality of the liquid is controlled. The most common argument you will get from detractors is that we don't have proof it's safe. That's a fool's argument. We generally ban or control things because we have evidence they are dangerous, not because we can't prove to some ridiculous and undefined measure that they are completely safe.

Look at the reality. The WHO estimates that 8 million people die annually around the world from smoking-related illness? Where are the millions, or even just thousands, of vape-related deaths? There is simply no comparison.

So all those people who object to vaping, for whatever trivial reason such as not liking the smell. Do you really feel that your petty aversion merits restricting what will, in all likelihood, be recognised one day as the single biggest public health success since penicillin?

If you read my post I said anyone using vapes as a smoking cessation tool will be more careful - because it's not just a toy/latest fad to them.

And yeah, my observation is that it's teenagers hanging around in groups, puffing away to impress their mates/try out the latest flavour then chucking the spent vape on the floor that are the vape litter louts, IMO.

@ElizabethanAgain I don't doubt that the new regulations have a political slant - they always do! - but I dispute that criticism of the Australian model is just coming from vape lobbyists. E-cigarettes have been around for about 20 years or so but really took off from about 2011/2012 ish. If you look at smoking rates in countries with more pro-vaping policies vs Australia which has been more prohibitive, it's clear that smoking rates have decreased more in the former. E.g. comparing smoking rates in 2011/12 to 2022/23:

Australia overall smoking rate decreased by 5.3%
U.K. decreased by 7.1%
Spain decreased by 8.2%
New Zealand decreased by 9.6%

The last three have been outspoken about the potential for vapes to act as a smoking cessation aid. Obviously not possible to say that is definitely due to vaping. But... it's hardly misinformation is it?

You couldn't be more wrong but you 100% don't want to change your mind. You could ask yourself why Cancer Research UK & a plethora of other uk health groups (including the NHS) are recommending vaping to smokers. Believe it or not that book & NRT & varenicline are much less effective.

I also have a little bit of experience with the Alan Carr group & I highly highly suspect this post is something to do with them.

I also have a LOT of experience in the field of smoking cessation & with scientists, researchers & legislators. The data does not support your position & medicalising vapes would be the worst thing for the health of smokers possible. Getting a medical license for an e-cig (as we know them) likely isn't even possible & the only ppl that have tried (get this) is the tobacco industry - BAT specifically. Cos guess what, they agree with you & want bans & restrictions. Wonder why that is?

"I was thinking though, watching people vape recently, about the intake being much higher than traditional smoking. A traditional smoker isn't sucking on a cig as many times in an hour as someone with a vape in their hand. Multiply that over 24 hours and it's quite eye-opening."

Haha. Had this conversation with my mum recently. She smokes and I counted how many puffs it takes her to smoke it (about 15). Then she won't have one for another hour or so. Me, on the other hand (the hand with the vape in)? A couple of toots here and there over the same hour. She counted my toots and said I tooted about 16 times over the hour. So similar, all in.

Definitely something to do with there being no 'end' to a vape so psychologically you haven't 'finished your cig (vape)'.