To find it really, really hard how much screen my teen wants

I would do it today. That is so mentally and emotionally unhealthy but unfortunately all too common these days. So common that most Mumsnetters just consider it the norm.

That's HALF of his day spent on screens

What we see: teens being zombies in front of a screen and not moving for hours.

What my 14yo does: chats to mates, watches shows, writes coding, plays games, discusses games, does homework, reads about new games or games strategies...and other things I look blankly at him when he explains

This must be very dependent on the child then. My 14 year old is the same but he definitely doesn't chat (has no friends/contacts), refuses to try to learn to code, never does homework nor reads about games. He turns into a mindless zombie and over the holidays his behaviour has got steadily worse and more aggressive.

He also complained "everyone is allowed to control their own screen time" except him and so we let him have free access these holidays, with a gaming limit of 2 hours. Instead of going out to play with the neighbours or his sister or doing anything when his device is charging he lies on his bed or sofa staring at the wall waiting until it has enough charge again. He refuses to help out with chores. Doesn't want to go out on trips.

He has until the weekend and we're re-installing limits and passcodes.

OP this all sounds normal and I share your anxiety about it all. I think your child has a decent balance. Good luck with everything, these are uncharted waters.

I honestly think it's too much and you should encourage him to do something else. As soon as he wakes is terrible. Maybe say x hours after 4pm or something. It's not healthy

So my ds get a couple hours when we get up. Then we do something together as a family. Then he gets a couple more mores then tea, and a bit of tv before bed.

I'd say 2 hours gaming
An hour or 2 of iPad
And a couple hours of tv.

Out of a 13 hour day .

On a school day that drops down to around a hour of gaming, half hour ipad and and hour or so tv

ADHD is a complete by product of the insane levels of screen time that children are exposed too. However it's easier for parents to pay for a diagnosis and medication than it is for them to face facts, get their kids of screens and actually spend some bloody time with them.

I don't think you need to chill out at all. I just think you have came to the wrong place to ask the question.

We live in this completely abnormal society where people think it's normal for teenagers to spend all day long playing computer games and sitting on social media. You are right to be concerned and I would urge you to continue doing what you're doing. Your son will thank you for it when he is an adult.

My own DC are younger but we don't have iPads and we try limit tv. We do lots of books, jigsaws and board games and I fully intend to keep that going even when they are teenagers. The posters who are ridiculing you for a family jigsaw night are sad and pathetic. Unfortunately you find very often that most parents know how damaging screens are for children but they simply can't be bothered doing anything about it because it makes their life easier.

There will be no smart phones or social media in my house until they are 16. I work in CAMHS and I am utterly appalled by the number of young people I encounter who can barely function in normal life. Have you read the book "The Anxious generation" by Jonathan Haidt? Have a listen to a few of the podcasts he has done. It will solidify in your mind that you are doing the right thing and should continue on this path, even when it's difficult.

No idea why folk are being so mean OP. Family jigsaws sound lovely! And it sounds like you are doing a great job of putting boundaries in place around screen time and he is actually to an extent adhering to them which is also great. Expecting him to like it is probably asking a bit much! Teenagers are designed to rebel. He won’t be like this forever.

I think you’re doing a really great job. I’m a teacher and have taught young kids to adults: you can tell the difference between kids who’ve had unlimited screen time and those who haven’t. He won’t thank you now, but when he’s older , he will .

Whyis having a different opinion rude?

I find it insane that people think “leave him alone he’s 14” is acceptable parenting. it is actually concerning.

the addiction to the internet and screen time is proven to be linked to anxiety and depression, but you know what ignore active parenting and “leave him alone”

you’re probably a little bit uptight with the stress it is causing you, but when he’s older he will be thankful he didn’t have a childhood which was glue to tablets and computer skills and probably will have higher emotional intelligence and communication skills (as non of these kids seem to communicate effectively outside of the tablets and screens)

just set the 2.5 hour rule a day, keep the controller and remotes in a place where he has to ask for them and return them, then he won’t be tempted and will have to find something else to do.

I'm going to go against the grain and say "keep up the fight". Recommend Jonathan Haight's "Anxious Generation". It talks particularly about smartphone use on adolescent brains, but also has a large section on "opportunity cost" which you touch on in your OP. Time on mobiles, games consoles and TV means they aren't out with friends 'practicing' being adults and having formative experiences that they need to become successful adults.

My DC are younger than your son, and have a tablet, watch loads of TV and films etc, but I do limit both. The tablets turn off after their set time that day, and with the exception of the first day or two of schools hols when they are extremely tired, or when we are travelling, I switch things off (including the WiFi if necessary) and give them chores, send them on an outing, get a friend to come round, etc.

I know it's a struggle but my point is you are fighting the good fight! Sounds like you've got the balance right OP.

The only way he can socialise with his friends is gaming if that's all his friends are doing and a couple of hours of TV before bed isn't that bad.
Tbh most 13/14 year olds wouldn't be seen dead doing a family jigsaw - so chill out a bit

It is bloody hard work trying to find the balance.

At the moment it sounds like you need to let go a little, for example the watching TV in the evening doesn’t sound problematic, especially as your DH is also watching. Maybe you could ease back on the control of this a bit?

I think you are doing all the right things with getting him off the gaming for a bit every day but you have to also find a way to let him learn to self regulate. I don’t know how you do that though, I had lots of battles with mine about it!

BTW - I like the family jigsaw idea 😀

I've got an autistic teen of the same age plus slightly younger sibling.

I try to balance quality and quantity. DS2 naturally watches more mind-bending crap, but is easier to get out for exercise and will happily go out for bike rides etc.

DS1 watches more quality. The internet gives him the material to feed his in-depth special interests that are hard to access in other ways. He's dyslexic so reading is not a relaxing, pleasurable way to get information (ditto DS2), and the detail he thrives on is rarely avaliable in the bite-size visual form that he enjoyed when he was young. He regulates by playing creatively/ strategically and immersing himself in special interests. He's not interested in RL socialising. He's got a long distance friend (who moved) that he games with online and his sibling, and that fills his social need.

I view it as what is he not doing by being on screens being the bigger issue than the screens themselves. The majority of days, I aim to get him out for some fresh air and movement. He still has a couple of sports activities in the evening so I pace around those. At school he is one of the fittest in his PE class.

The reality is that he's in the awkward gap between childhood and adulthood, mine more awkward than average. He's got the growing out of most physical play, but is delayed on independence and doesn't have usual levels of social motivation to fill the gap. He works hard at school that costs him a lot of mental energy that needs recovery. He still does some sports and I try to make sure that all bases are covered, but trying to keep screen time to a minimum out of principle is unrealistic for us. He can't just sign up to a gym and fill time there, and other interesting places to get out and burn energy like trampoline parks get pricey. A picnic and playground doesn't tend to cut it any more!

Capping screen time to sensible social hours is important, as is making sure they have a variety of mental and physical experiences, but I wouldn't be stressing over a young teen defaulting to screens as relaxation time for multiple hours per day. Don't sweat it too hard.

It honestly sounds like you’re doing well. Screens are so addictive and it’s really hard for teens to self regulate. It’s not easy for you to constantly hold the boundary but you’re doing him a world of good by doing so, and the more he practices (at your insistence) the more balanced he will be about them.

Completely agree with this.

Allowing young developing brains unrestricted access to screens and all that short attention span content is a massive experiment and we don’t know the full consequences yet.

What we do know is that we have a huge problem with teenage MH and behaviour in senior schools. I don’t think it’s a coincidence.

I think a lot of the PP are trying to justify their own decision to give up the battle because it’s too stressful.

If you haven’t already, watch The Social Dilemma.

One other thought: how much pocket money does he get? And do you give him extra in the holidays for trips out?

My parents (early 90s) were very generous on both accounts and so I was able to go out and see a film with a friend, have an ice cream in a cafe, go into London and mooch about the shops etc. I was also allowed to buy a book a week during the summer holidays and would spend time at the bookshop choosing one, then reading it! (Also a certain amount of time at the public library, but it wasn't very good.)

Don't know your financial situation but would he go out a lot more and be on screens less if he had more to spend? 14 is a bit young for a job but it's not impossible if you have nice neighbours who want babysitting or gardening.

I agree with your unease. Mine are younger and a bit less screen time than your son (but not much less, so probably more relative to their ages). What I hate is that it's a constant battle to keep it down to the current level, which basically seems huge to me. (I was a child, admittedly, who only watched TV about once a week.) What I hate most of all is the beginning of the assumption that being on a screen is the default mode, the only true form of relaxation, etc.

On the other hand, I'm not sure that DH and I model great behaviour. We are trying to use our phones less, but it's still a lot of email checking during holiday day times, WhatsApp,searching for things online etc.

I get you OP - you are working hard to keep his life balanced. I have been working all week and ASD DD12 has been on screens most of the day and not left the house. It's not games - her obsession is Sonic the Hedgehog so reading fan stuff and watching videos. Once I finish work today I have a similar challenge to you - to get her to have a more balanced daily life. If I can get her outside every day, I will be happy. It will be hard work for me, a difficult aspect of parenting!

People seem so anti tv these days. When I was growing up 30 years ago we all started our days with 'Live and Kicking' Nickelodeon etc.
Went out for the day then came home and had movie marathons in the evening during the holidays.
I didn't have gaming consoles but lots of my friends did and we all spent loads of time on them. I don't remember any of our parents having any issues or trying to limit time.
We have all grown into well rounded adults and many with our own businesses and well paid jobs.
Honestly, I would relax about it.

I know what you mean. My Ds used to have a lot of screen time and it was clearly messing with his head. We have stopped gaming now and just watch BBC stuff (and MN!).

What are his other hobbies or interests that don't involve screens?

The easiest way to naturally limit screen time is to keep them busy doing other things, whether thats playing sport, a part time job, practising hobbies like dance/drama/music, creative/art hobbies like drawing or sewing or woodworking. In person socialising with friends that isn't via a game.

Proper board games are a good alternative activity.

Can you help him identify a summer exercise goal, or offer pocket money for jobs around the house to keep him busy & off screens?

Does he do anything other than play games on his computer? I ask because mine was/is a computer buff and he programmed from an early age. He wrote programmes for school and even won a prize. That was many years ago. Now, in addition to programming and website design, making videos plus other things, he plays chess and poker online.

I don't think watching TV programmes for a couple of hours in the evening is at all unusual, most of us do that and some for longer. There is often some good and interesting stuff on TV (sometimes not, I find Saturday evening television quite banal).

You do other things with your boy, it's not all screen. Don't worry, he is still growing up and I'm sure he will be fine.