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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Perhaps women aren't cut out to be on the front line?

243 replies

andsisters · 25/07/2024 14:21

Footage of the female officers at the attempted assassination of Trump, and of the scenes at Manchester Airport makes me think that perhaps we're not best suited in those situations.

Would those four violent men have dared attack male officers in the same way?

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9
helpfulperson · 25/07/2024 18:36

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Yup, support staff in schools as well. That should be a male job.

Nobodywouldknow · 25/07/2024 18:36

VolvoFan · 25/07/2024 18:28

"And by “acquiesce to things like this” you mean to employ women?"

I mean continue to take the blame for the way the situation was handled. The officer that lashed out and kicked someone in the head has been suspended, the entire force has been branded racist and the Muslim communities in Manchester are demanding their brothers' release and have threatened to riot like what happened in Leeds recently.

GMP will absolutely apologise, sack the officer who lashed out and put all their officers through even more training. People won't rest until all that happens.

Edited

Errr how can they NOT sack him when he is on film kicking a man who is subdued, not advancing and lying prone on the ground in the head and then stamping on him? In what warped universe is that acceptable policing to you? I don’t know about racism but that video is a total embarrassment to the GMP.

By the way is there any footage of the three men beating the officers because I haven’t seen any and lots of people were filming? And people are trying to pass off pictures from a newspaper article last year as being of the female officer who apparently suffered a broken nose.

HeadsAlwaysSpinnig · 25/07/2024 18:31

Ive been nose to nose with very aggressive men threatening to bite my male colleagues' noses off, etc etc with no issue, de escalated the situation and was the only one able to deal with him. The two times ive been assaulted were by drunk women old enough to be my mother.

SouthLondonMum22 · 25/07/2024 18:29

RisingSunn · 25/07/2024 18:24

Yes Trump did himself no favours at all.
However, if you look at the footage before the fist pump, he was clearly exposed where the female agent was positioned. (Very lucky there wasn’t a second shooter).

Though I guess if there was a 6ft 3 female agent, it would be a moot point.

There’s plenty of men who aren’t 6ft 3 too.

VolvoFan · 25/07/2024 18:28

Nobodywouldknow · 25/07/2024 18:21

So to be clear you’re saying that the Manchester Airport incident happened because there are female police officers? Not because ALL the police officers present seemed to be completely incompetent, going round spraying, kicking and shoving people who didn’t seem to be attacking them? There are tens of thousands of female police officers who do their jobs daily without any issues at all. And by “acquiesce to things like this” you mean to employ women?

"And by “acquiesce to things like this” you mean to employ women?"

I mean continue to take the blame for the way the situation was handled. The officer that lashed out and kicked someone in the head has been suspended, the entire force has been branded racist and the Muslim communities in Manchester are demanding their brothers' release and have threatened to riot like what happened in Leeds recently.

GMP will absolutely apologise, sack the officer who lashed out and put all their officers through even more training. People won't rest until all that happens.

Nobodywouldknow · 25/07/2024 18:25

ginasevern · 25/07/2024 18:13

The thing is, almost all men are stronger than almost all women so presumably (apart from soft skills like negotiation etc as already discussed) we are at something of a disadvantage.

Policing isn’t about having fist fights with suspects. There will also be plenty of suspects who are much physically stronger than many male police officers. There are techniques to overpower them and very often female officers manage to. Sometimes they are attacked but then again sometimes so are male officers.
Do you have these concerns about nursing where predominantly female staff often have to lift patients or deal with angry, drunk or violent patients (often the very same people the police deal with)? Or is it only in policing that women are too weak to do the job?

RisingSunn · 25/07/2024 18:24

Superfuryanimal · 25/07/2024 17:50

See I thought that if the man had any sense at all, rather than standing up tall punching the air and waving his head around to be shot at he should have taken shelter amongst the men (who were as tall as him as we've seen in the photo on this thread) and the women who were there to shield him.

Yes Trump did himself no favours at all.
However, if you look at the footage before the fist pump, he was clearly exposed where the female agent was positioned. (Very lucky there wasn’t a second shooter).

Though I guess if there was a 6ft 3 female agent, it would be a moot point.

Abhannmor · 25/07/2024 18:23

Nobodywouldknow · 25/07/2024 18:07

To the extent that they can’t control themselves and have to kick someone in the head when they are lying on the ground? Doesn’t sound like the best person for the job to me.

True. The female police officers in the video are not acting unprofessionally as far as I can make out. Apart from the one trying to take the phones away from witnesses perhaps. Perhaps a more senior policewoman might have some control over those macho men?

Nobodywouldknow · 25/07/2024 18:21

VolvoFan · 25/07/2024 18:16

So all those women will have consented to the risk of being overpowered, beaten and having their faces smashed in by violent criminals over the course of their careers. There will be more incidents like the Manchester Airport if the police forces continue to acquiesce to things like this. That's what I'm saying.

Edited

So to be clear you’re saying that the Manchester Airport incident happened because there are female police officers? Not because ALL the police officers present seemed to be completely incompetent, going round spraying, kicking and shoving people who didn’t seem to be attacking them? There are tens of thousands of female police officers who do their jobs daily without any issues at all. And by “acquiesce to things like this” you mean to employ women?

PinkArt · 25/07/2024 18:19

ISpyNoPlumPie · 25/07/2024 17:56

Suppprtive roles!!! Oh how quaint!! Can I earn half the salary and get my arse slapped with that too?? 🤞

Dion't you worry your pretty little head about things like that. Now run along dear and make the big, strong policemen a cup of tea.🙄

Superfuryanimal · 25/07/2024 18:19

ginasevern · 25/07/2024 18:13

The thing is, almost all men are stronger than almost all women so presumably (apart from soft skills like negotiation etc as already discussed) we are at something of a disadvantage.

Not at a disadvantage intellectually, in terms of resilience, mental stability, stamina, communication skills, ability to use weapons/tools/data, ability to absorb training, transfer skills, command respect, leadership, comradeship.

Are these soft skills?

Nobodywouldknow · 25/07/2024 18:17

User135644 · 25/07/2024 18:11

You can't react like that, but men, at least biologically/traditionally, have a protector instinct when it comes to women, at least with friends/colleagues and family. Watching savages beat up on women like that, particularly ones they may have a close working relationship with, can unleash a visceral reaction. Police protect each other.

Yeah many men also seem to have a biological/traditional instinct to beat up women they are in relationships with rather than protecting them. So it might be that they just like violence. Also if you cannot control your reactions to the extent that you stamp on someone’s head when they are on the ground, you seriously do not belong in that job.

PinkArt · 25/07/2024 18:17

MixedCouple2 · 25/07/2024 17:51

Nope but better suited to supportive roles in these areas.

Typing pool perhaps? Secretarial?
Jeez, this thread!

VolvoFan · 25/07/2024 18:16

Nobodywouldknow · 25/07/2024 18:08

Women can be on the frontline, just not in high-risk professions like policing and security, in my opinion

Well it’s lucky that your opinion counts for shit then seeing as women make up over a third of the police force.

So all those women will have consented to the risk of being overpowered, beaten and having their faces smashed in by violent criminals over the course of their careers. There will be more incidents like the Manchester Airport if the police forces continue to acquiesce to things like this. That's what I'm saying.

orchiddottyback · 25/07/2024 18:15

Nobodywouldknow · 25/07/2024 18:08

Women can be on the frontline, just not in high-risk professions like policing and security, in my opinion

Well it’s lucky that your opinion counts for shit then seeing as women make up over a third of the police force.

So come on then answer my this how many make up the front line of our military front line, marines, Infantry, SAS?

Also care to just answer this do you think male and female sports should be mixed? after all the frontline is no different, do you think boxing should have male and female mixed? 🤔 If not why not.

ginasevern · 25/07/2024 18:13

The thing is, almost all men are stronger than almost all women so presumably (apart from soft skills like negotiation etc as already discussed) we are at something of a disadvantage.

User135644 · 25/07/2024 18:11

Nobodywouldknow · 25/07/2024 18:07

To the extent that they can’t control themselves and have to kick someone in the head when they are lying on the ground? Doesn’t sound like the best person for the job to me.

You can't react like that, but men, at least biologically/traditionally, have a protector instinct when it comes to women, at least with friends/colleagues and family. Watching savages beat up on women like that, particularly ones they may have a close working relationship with, can unleash a visceral reaction. Police protect each other.

Nobodywouldknow · 25/07/2024 18:08

Women can be on the frontline, just not in high-risk professions like policing and security, in my opinion

Well it’s lucky that your opinion counts for shit then seeing as women make up over a third of the police force.

Nobodywouldknow · 25/07/2024 18:07

User135644 · 25/07/2024 17:51

Watching your female coworker get their face smashed in will also be rage induing to male officers which contributes to that reaction.

You need the best person for the job, whoever that is. DEI doesn't work on some front line situations. You need to be able to physically handle yourself and not have standards lowered to tick boxes.

Edited

To the extent that they can’t control themselves and have to kick someone in the head when they are lying on the ground? Doesn’t sound like the best person for the job to me.

cupcaske123 · 25/07/2024 18:06

VolvoFan · 25/07/2024 17:59

Women can be on the frontline, just not in high-risk professions like policing and security, in my opinion. We live in a much more violent society these days, hence police carry tasers and CS gas. They used to just have a pair of handcuffs, a baton, a whistle and a notebook. The whistle was used to alert other constables in the area during a time when they mostly did foot patrols. Now with less officers, wider areas to cover and intelligence led policing, they have fleets of patrol cars. Policing has adapted to modern society, and that adaption reflects how volatile society has become.

Women wanted equality in the work place, which meant getting jobs in professions that are mostly male-dominated. Women got what they wanted.

But women are in front line jobs like the police, the fire brigade, security and the armed forces. They evidently can do the jobs.

Yes women wanted equality in the workplace. That's very true.

tinytemper66 · 25/07/2024 18:03

I have been in school when there have been fights and there have been no male staff around or willing to help. I have broken up many a fight at less than 5 feet tall. Size isn't everything...

VolvoFan · 25/07/2024 17:59

Women can be on the frontline, just not in high-risk professions like policing and security, in my opinion. We live in a much more violent society these days, hence police carry tasers and CS gas. They used to just have a pair of handcuffs, a baton, a whistle and a notebook. The whistle was used to alert other constables in the area during a time when they mostly did foot patrols. Now with less officers, wider areas to cover and intelligence led policing, they have fleets of patrol cars. Policing has adapted to modern society, and that adaption reflects how volatile society has become.

Women wanted equality in the work place, which meant getting jobs in professions that are mostly male-dominated. Women got what they wanted.

Superfuryanimal · 25/07/2024 17:59

MixedCouple2 · 25/07/2024 17:51

Nope but better suited to supportive roles in these areas.

The bosses that employ them obviously don't think so.
Bosses love throwing money at people who can't do the job they pay them for.

ISpyNoPlumPie · 25/07/2024 17:56

MixedCouple2 · 25/07/2024 17:51

Nope but better suited to supportive roles in these areas.

Suppprtive roles!!! Oh how quaint!! Can I earn half the salary and get my arse slapped with that too?? 🤞

Superfuryanimal · 25/07/2024 17:54

stayathomer · 25/07/2024 17:50

Superfuryanimal
Ive worked in stables and done hard physical work too but I’m not physically strong and that was the same as most of the women in the yard.

In work (another job) on a team building thing we did a tug of war and most of the teams sucked except for a few standouts.

Also on nights out myself and friends have discussed things we were embarrassed not to have been able to do. I HATE HATE HATE it-but eg when I strim the garden/ mow the lawn my arms reverberate for DAYS, my husband is a bit sore if he does tons more than that. I went to a technical college and a lot of women ended up giving up eg plumbing and building jobs because they were like ‘fuck this, my body isn’t going to manage this for long’ A huge percentage of women are not physically strong enough to do certain jobs easily. And if you can’t do a life saving job easily I think it’s questionable that you be there

Then I guess you're not the sort of person who would take that kind of job.

It's self selecting.
I mowed, gardened, farmed day in day out for decades and so have many of the women I've worked with with no hurty lady arms.

God it makes me sigh to read such pathetic nonsense.
If you can you do. If you can't you do something else.

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