Parents not wanting to parent/tell their child no

This is the saddest consequence. Children who are not parented properly and are allowed to do whatever want are often very unpopular. As are adults who think the whole world revolves around them.

Socialising your children requires implementing and enforcing boundaries - from an early age. They need to learn that treats are given occasionally, not all the time. That other people will come before them quite often.

In the 1970s our neighbours bought the child whose birthday it wasn’t a gift so that they had something to open when their sibling was opening theirs. My DM was astounded - and years later it never occurred to me to do that. My two accepted it was the other one’s special day and that was that.

Hi OP,

Sorry, I may have misinterpreted something you’d initially said in your thread- of course I don’t think you’d need to leave a meal to avoid this. I suppose I was thinking that if I were in the community (like a park or something) I would make my excuses in a polite way because I would be thinking that me intervening would potentially damage my friendship. I do understand that is a different situation.

If I was out having dinner and this happened with people who I considered friends I might choose to be curious with them directly about their parenting choices and ask what they normally do when stuff like this happens/ or how they would like me to respond in that moment instead of doing it on their behalf. I would probably try to validate the struggle and say something like ‘ah it’s really tricky trying to get youngsters to fit in with things that are more interesting for adults (like going for a meal), do you often go out as a family or is it quite hard?..took us a while to get to the point where we’ve been able to do it’. I think that would be enough to open the conversation about it. Although like we’ve said I am a psyc so I do find speaking like this quite comfortable and I know it isn’t always like this for others. Alongside this I would also feel annoyed that my meal had been ruined.

I always believed that if you really love your children then you raise them to behave in ways that other people will like. Basically I just wanted other adults to warm towards my children and therefore treat my children nicely.

You are doing your child a massive disservice if you allow them to be annoying and troublesome to other people. It's actually incredibly selfish parenting because to make your life easier you are inconveniencing those around you and encouraging them to dislike your child. Not great parenting, is it?

I've seen firsthand the effects of this feeble parenting style. The parent works long hours so doesn't ever want to be the 'bad guy' in the precious time they get to spend with their child. Again, it's incredibly selfish and putting their own needs above those of their child. Their child needs to learn how to behave appropriately among it's peers and adults.

I hear you OP. Have got some of these in my circle as well. It's infuriating. When will parents understand that children NEED boundaries and rules. It makes them feel secure. Not giving them that is lazy parenting and the children will be penalized for their unruly behaviour because people will avoid them. And I know It's hard. I have got a 14-year old son on the autism spectrum (lower iq than normal but is verbal) at home and I need to repeat non stop what is acceptable behaviour and what is not because he is clueless (and sometimes insolent). So I just want to give up sometimes but that would be giving up on him. And he knows the basics: always says please and thank you, always greets neighbours and leaves them with "have a good day" even if it's in the evening 😄 because it's automatic learning but I'm happy with that because everyone says that he's polite (not when he has his daily tantrums due to me saying no to something, then he's batshit crazy and calls me all the names in the book m). So I have NO tolerance for people wit NT children who can't say no and tell them off when they are acting disruptively. It's so Easy compared to a ND child really. With DS 2 I usually just have to give him a look and he stops whatever it is he's doing that is not correct.

YANBU. Really really YANBU! I gave my children boundaries and I have heard how great, thoughtful and respectful they are from teachers, Scout leaders, youth leaders, drama group leaders - basically, most adults they interact with. It's not about raising them to be carpets, but being 'citizens of the world'.

Sadly, I think there's some huge fear among parents these days that giving boundaries will lead to a lack of confidence or some kind of mental health issue. It's more likely to be the opposite IMO - getting this bohemian (slightly insulting to Bohemia) attitude from their parents that jars hugely with other areas of their lives will lead to confusion or disillusionment. They could be overlooked for responsibility, they could miss out on rewards, they may go from job to job because they won't understand big money usually requires someone to put in bloody hard work... the list goes on.

A friend posted on Instagram recently to say she was so proud of her 12/13 year old responding 'Fucking amazing' to a question from an authority figure about how he was feeling about life, and I was just 😲 that anyone could feel proud of that. I mean great that he's confident, and yes, I think he has ADHD so has had his struggles, but really - did we need the f-word?!

I am not judging anyone. I just feel that having a lack of rules harms your child. They will be excluded socially unless you can find another equally useless parent to spend time with.

Hi OP,

I completely agree with the points you make- we put so much effort and time into teaching our boys how we behave together.

the one thing I would say though is that it’s not always ‘simply’ people who can’t be bothered to parent. Children are really difficult to raise, to varying degrees. One of my boys is extremely energetic. I am a psychologist and I work a lot on parenting with other people, yet I find it so hard with my own (not so much my second, but my first is really quite hard work). I hate taking him on play dates but try to push myself to do it. To caveat this I do hold boundaries around the things you describe. But when I see people in the community who seem to have ‘given up’, it’s not always my thinking that they just can’t be bothered.

I’ve worked with loads of people who want to be the way you’ve spoken, but are so burnt out that they just don’t have the capacity to do it. They are well aware and feel very guilty about it, embarrassed and ashamed that they aren’t able to manage their child’s behaviour so they don’t have the confidence to try and enforce in front of other, more confident people. The people I work with, to the outside appear quite fine but maybe slightly more flaky with meet-ups, not so able to plan play dates and find these play dates really overwhelming, often leaving feeling bad - it can take a lot of courage to attend. Unless they chose to confide in you you wouldn’t know.

Similarly some people choose to parent in this way as it aligns with their values, which may be slightly different to my viewpoint but not really for me to judge.

I think I would be quite mindful about setting boundaries on behalf of other parents, it can feel quite judgemental and shaming and you don’t know how that is being perceived by the other person. I would maybe reflect on someone saying to their own child that they need to ask me if they can do something that possibly they are either feeling demoralised and ‘lesser’ than me or that they’re totally pissed off and being a bit sarcastic. In that situation I would simply make excuses and leave rather than try to set a boundary on behalf of another person.

Stop putting them in situations where they feel like they are always being unfairly treated then when all the other children around them can do what they want, cause havoc, throw tantrums and face no consequences while you're constantly telling them no.

You know it's not your parenting that's bad but your children are going to see you as too strict because your friends don't parent their children, but you don't want to upset the bad parents.

@Commonsenseisnotsocommon When I've joked and asked 'who's in charge' they've often said that with their children being in nursery all week they don't want fall out on the limited time they have them so will swerve the actual boundary setting as it's too upsetting. The mums I know who are sahms don't seem to have the same reluctance and their children are better behaved. Only my experience before you lot come at me with pitchforks.

@userloadsofnumbers Incidentally, we also have a very high proportion of only children in his year - don't mean to be controversial and I know not all 'onlys' are treated like this but at this school they are definitely indulged and never told no!

No pitchforks honestly! 😀
But interestingly my experiences led me to exactly the opposite conclusion.

The children who were in nursery were used to conforming to what was expected in their nursery group and so much better at accepting boundaries. Certainly by the time it came to school they were the ones who adapted easily, were better behaved and didn't expect the world to revolve around them.

And in my experience of hosting birthday parties, play dates etc., only children were much easier to manage as they were used to interaction with adults and tended to listen to what they were asked. It seemed like the children with siblings were more inclined to tune out what the adults said and therefore needed asking more than once to do something.

Again, just my experience.

Had a play date with another mum and primary aged child yesterday and the girl was constantly interrupting the conversation between adults, and then followed me around for ages asking a million questions. I was getting frustrated and mum did absolutely nothing. Never heard her say no or correct any behaviour. Same child cycles on pavements and through the town with no regard to other children / people walking and will cycle into them. It won't be long till someone gets hurt but this mum is away with the fairies.

It's rare though. On the whole the kids I know are disciplined and parents do check their kids.

Well, my kids are way past that age. But no, I don’t remember it being that often. And never, “ask calam”
it’s incredibly hard to say online where you will only present your parenting as exemplary. “I am putting in boundaries. Is that wrong” Yeah, like that’s going to get a yabu. I do wonder what your friends would think of your parenting given no other friend you have parents like you. Just being devils advocate of course because nothing mentioned here sounds wrong on your part. But obviously so iykwim. So where’s the real concern. If it was a moan about certain friend/s I could understand but not the majority and not you questioning whether to give children structure and boundaries is correct. You’d honestly be best having this conversation with your friends and asking them about the differences in your parenting and see if you can come to common ground and address some of your issues with them and maybe find out something about yours too that you could address.

Completely agree.
I was sharing my experience.
Luckily I didn't give a toss about being popular either

IMO they see the child as a reflection/extension of themselves. That’s why saying no kneejerks an excuse out of them.

Whereas other parents might keep quiet and allow the boundary setting, or reiterate “kind hands” or take it further with an explanation “People have different rules in their houses, and it’s polite to listen to them”.

In a way, you’re watching the children train the parents, it’s a reversal of the norm. Will these children develop the resilience for life? Will they fledge and drive themselves forward into success and contentment?

So what? If their parents are neglecting them it doesn't mean that everyone else needs to follow and accept it. I don't think I would want to be 'popular' with such drips, family or not.

I have no issue telling anoyher child no. We do this with friends/fily and expect them to tell our kids too. It takes a village.

Personally I'd call the parents out too. They need to parent.

So when telling the child name the parent too so they are brought into the conversation. If they value your friendship they'll pick up the reins.

Yes I notice it! And what I find as infuriating is the 'flexible no'. Child asks to do something and is told no so begs, gets angry and parent lets them do it. How do children learn what no means?!

I know parents know their own child and I try really hard not to judge because I don't know their situation but in a cafe last week and a toddler (2 maybe 3) came over to our table. We say 'oh hello' and carried on our conversation as the child started removing the cutlery from our table! The parent sat and half watched/half played on their phone!

In a restaurant where the brats are running wild you tell your children that the other children are being very badly behaved because no-one tells them No and 'you are better than that'.

Parents need to reintroduce the words 'because I say so!'.

Once hosted a play date for old neighbours, her child went in to my bedroom and sprayed my perfume, threw a box of tissues across the room and almost damaged a snooker table with a cue . They were never invited again and I cut off contact .

There is plenty you can do but it won't make you popular

If these are family members there's not much you can do about it

Of course there is, family don't get a free ride for being poor parents. The words 'stop it', 'NO' 'naughty' are useful, probably words they've never heard before.

What happens when these kids grow up ? They don't last long in the workplace or they soon learn that they have to toe the line if they want to keep a job . As they get older other kids won't tolerate them so reject them.Some of these kids end up doing time for fraud / theft because they think they are entitled to everything.

Sadly I have seen plenty of situations like this as well. It’s parents who want to be their child’s best friend, not their parent. I have friends who now refuse to fly via a specific airport because a security person gave out to their child for playing in the screening area. They were so outraged that someone would shout at a child that they now use different London airports. Not a shred of realisation that an airport, especially the security screening area, is not a playground.
Same child also went through my bag and the parent thought it perfectly acceptable. It’s incredible really