Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Greater Manchester Police brutality

981 replies

Gummybear23 · 24/07/2024 22:22

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/jul/24/armed-police-officer-filmed-kicking-man-in-face-at-manchester-airport

Sickening behaviour. Surely tasering the man is enough.
He is on the floor tasered so you give him some kickings to the head?

Hope this is properly investigated.
Greater Manchester Police have an awful reputation.

Manchester airport: officer removed from frontline duty after arrest video goes viral

Armed police officer seen kicking suspect in footage Greater Manchester police called ‘truly shocking’

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/jul/24/armed-police-officer-filmed-kicking-man-in-face-at-manchester-airport

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
Gummybear23 · 28/07/2024 11:48

JacquesHarlow · 28/07/2024 10:53

The officers should be trained to deesulate a situation and take control.

Do you honestly think these people haven’t been trained?!

maybe, just maybe, some of their training involves using “shock and awe” violence to destabilise and subdue someone who has broken appendages on police officer’s faces already and could at some point try and reach for their weapon or mortally injure the officer.

so with all that in mind @Gummybear23 how would you propose doing this “deescalation” when you’re outnumbered? Please walk me through it step by step.

Not get angry and kick someone in the head.

Again, WHO is saying he is angry? If the policeman is punched, and returns a punch because he is fighting for his life, does that second punch automatically get attributed to “anger”? What is a policeman allowed to do when the perpetrator makes it a straight up street fight?!

They lads lashed out and needed to be tasered.

“Lashed out” makes it sound like they got a bit tipsy and mistakenly scrapped. These guys don’t drink. They did what they did sober, premeditated, and I would posit that they wanted to attack police in retaliation for how their relative was treated on the plane.

as for “tasered” how many times must I say it.. a taser is not a magic bullet. It doesn’t stun or render the attacker unconscious. the thing about UK policing is that it’s not like the US where a bullet from a distance can stop a perpetrator. Our police have to get up close and dirty, risk flailing limbs, knives, strangulation, anything. In those situations a Taser helps quicken the subduing process. It is not the whole process!

There are people with mental health issues to attack police officers in a very aggressive way.

Please don’t do this @Gummybear23 . You know absolutely NOTHING of their mental health. Don’t blame it on something abstract just because you can’t conscience or imagine that a person could be badly behaved enough to attack an officer. People do it in cold blood because they are criminal.

As for the last sentence, I despair. No one on this forum wants a perpetrator to be beaten to death. Just as the policewoman didn’t leave the house wanting her nose broken, yeah?

Don't do what?
The facts are there.
According to ICOP.

23 People arrested in 22/23 died in police custody.

not necessarily a race issue as
nineteen of the 23 people arrested who died in police custody were white.

Although the use of force did not necessarily contribute to all the deaths but it did some.

The use of force should never contribute to anyone's death.
So yes improved training is needed.

I don't want innocents shot dead either like in the case of Jean Charles de Menezes. Later reported as a 'tragedy.
Unacceptable.

OP posts:
MyGladEagle · 28/07/2024 11:45

MrsSkylerWhite · 28/07/2024 11:43

People are not damning the police. They’re commenting on the violent, excessive response of one officer.

Due process will tell.

You're not the objective arbiter over whether it was violent and excessive. Hence why you're damning the police without knowing all the facts

You would have though people would have learned this by now after there was such a strong initial reaction to an incomplete video of the situation.

MrsSkylerWhite · 28/07/2024 11:43

People are not damning the police. They’re commenting on the violent, excessive response of one officer.

Due process will tell.

AzureAnt · 28/07/2024 11:42

MrsSkylerWhite · 28/07/2024 11:21

AzureAnt · Today 11:04
Nobody can say we weren't warned
Decades ago
Waiting for the delete message

What do you mean?

Your probably need to go and read up a bit about British politics

MyGladEagle · 28/07/2024 11:40

MsCheeryble · 28/07/2024 11:38

Do tell us about your legal education and qualifications.

No need, people have waded in here without policing qualifications damning the police, so I'm quite happy to follow suit and damn laywers that come on here defending criminals.

Usercyzabc · 28/07/2024 11:39

rosiers · 28/07/2024 11:33

@MyGladEagle If you don't know it, why did you state it as fact?

My education is just fine thanks darling. 5 years of legal education to master level at a Russell group university, followed by two years of training leading up to qualification.

So you are newly qualified?

EasternStandard · 28/07/2024 11:38

FineFettler · 28/07/2024 11:36

Tell me, if you saw, say, one person hit someone else over the head and run away with their wallet, would you feel able to say with reasonable certainty that you had witnessed a criminal assault and theft? Or would you be saying "I'm really not certain what happened, the process to go through it hasn't taken place yet"?

Why think you know the outcome? You don’t

As Burnham said this morning no one has the full picture. I don’t claim to but some mners are certain they do

MsCheeryble · 28/07/2024 11:38

MyGladEagle · 28/07/2024 11:36

I didn't state it as fact I asked what the concussive state is of the officer. The answer to that can be he wasn't concussed. That really isn't difficult to grasp.

And thanks for again confirming that something is going wrong with education for lawyers in this Country. We all know that the current criminal system is a joke and favours the criminals.

Do tell us about your legal education and qualifications.

Gummybear23 · 28/07/2024 11:37

Well there should.
In 22/23 nineteen of the 23 people arrested who died in police custody and had some use of force used against were white.

Although the use of force did not necessarily contribute to all the deaths but did some.

The use of force should never contribute to anyone's death.

OP posts:
FineFettler · 28/07/2024 11:36

EasternStandard · 28/07/2024 11:33

How are you stating this with certainty when a process to go through what happened has not been done yet?

Tell me, if you saw, say, one person hit someone else over the head and run away with their wallet, would you feel able to say with reasonable certainty that you had witnessed a criminal assault and theft? Or would you be saying "I'm really not certain what happened, the process to go through it hasn't taken place yet"?

MyGladEagle · 28/07/2024 11:36

rosiers · 28/07/2024 11:33

@MyGladEagle If you don't know it, why did you state it as fact?

My education is just fine thanks darling. 5 years of legal education to master level at a Russell group university, followed by two years of training leading up to qualification.

I didn't state it as fact I asked what the concussive state is of the officer. The answer to that can be he wasn't concussed. That really isn't difficult to grasp.

And thanks for again confirming that something is going wrong with education for lawyers in this Country. We all know that the current criminal system is a joke and favours the criminals.

Jmaho · 28/07/2024 11:35

Ah @rosiers so you're a lawyer.
Makes perfect sense now.

EasternStandard · 28/07/2024 11:34

FineFettler · 28/07/2024 11:33

From the fact that kicking a prone man in the head is an illegal assault? To say nothing of the later incident when the same officer kicks another man in the leg when he is simply complying with the officer's demand that he lie on the floor, then hits the man on the head with his gun.

From mn authority?

You can’t say what the outcome will be

MyGladEagle · 28/07/2024 11:34

MrsSkylerWhite · 28/07/2024 11:31

how do you deduce this

By watching one man kick an incapacitated man in the face then stamping on his head.

So basically you have no respect for the law and due process if you think you are able to establish whether it was legal or not

FineFettler · 28/07/2024 11:33

Usercyzabc · 28/07/2024 11:26

@MrsSkylerWhite how do you deduce this?

From the fact that kicking a prone man in the head is an illegal assault? To say nothing of the later incident when the same officer kicks another man in the leg when he is simply complying with the officer's demand that he lie on the floor, then hits the man on the head with his gun.

rosiers · 28/07/2024 11:33

@MyGladEagle If you don't know it, why did you state it as fact?

My education is just fine thanks darling. 5 years of legal education to master level at a Russell group university, followed by two years of training leading up to qualification.

EasternStandard · 28/07/2024 11:33

MrsSkylerWhite · 28/07/2024 11:16

LovelyBitOfHam · Today 01:42
It always amuses me how much some Mumsnetters hate the police.”

I certainly don’t hate the police. I respect and admire anyone who puts themselves forward. I also respect the law, though, and the officer was acting illegally.

How are you stating this with certainty when a process to go through what happened has not been done yet?

MrsSkylerWhite · 28/07/2024 11:31

how do you deduce this

By watching one man kick an incapacitated man in the face then stamping on his head.

Savemydrink · 28/07/2024 11:30

Dorisbonson · 28/07/2024 08:51

There should be some form of legal sanction for sharing videos/information out of context. This nearly caused a riot.

They say freedom of speech does not include shouting fire in a crowded theatre. This seems to be the social media equivalent. If it has the potential to cause a riot perhaps social media platforms should establish the full facts before allowing it on the platform (or take it down quickly) unless they are willing to pay for the cost of the damage caused at a protest/riot?

Totally irresponsible.

No excuse whatsoever for a riot.

We caused a fight an airport and got a kicking, Lets riot

Our kids were taken away as they were deemed to be in an unsafe environment
Lets riot

Our friends and family in Bangladesh had a ruckus
Lets riot

If riot is going to be the default from now on then all police need to carry fire arms, rioters should expect that they will sometimes be used.

Also, while there is a severe housing shortage, anyone convicted of rioting should lose all benefits and council housing and 5 yrs in jail minimum.

Consequences !!!!!!!!

MyGladEagle · 28/07/2024 11:29

FineFettler · 28/07/2024 11:27

When a plane crashes we don't have multiple videos taken from a few feet away plus CCTV.

Your attempts to divert this discussion from the simple facts are so blatant. If the videos showed the police officer acting completely properly, he wouldn't have been suspended. If you would like to show where in the police code of conduct or training manuals this sort of behaviour is condoned, we'll look forward to seeing it.

Quite often we do have several videos

I'm just curious as to why you believe that you inherently believe you have the facts of a situation to hand from a a bit of cctv.

I ask again, what was the concussive state of the officer, and were the tasers functioning? Please don't continue to attempt to dodge these simple questions by deflecting.

MyGladEagle · 28/07/2024 11:28

rosiers · 28/07/2024 11:26

@MyGladEagle how do you know the officer was in a concussion state? Are you a medical expert on the scene who assessed his physical state?

I don't

That's why I'm asking people like you who keep claiming the officer could have dealt with in a different way to determine it.

As I said lawyers appear to need to be better educated in this Country. You'd expect them not to wade in with this sort of speculation to rile up tensions.

FineFettler · 28/07/2024 11:27

MyGladEagle · 28/07/2024 11:23

That's interesting

When a plane crashes do you know from the video evidence what happened, or is it just situations involving the police where you believe you know all the facts?

Just let us know how well the tasers were functioning and the concussion state of the officer that were being violently attacked if you want to demonstrate you have any knowledge whatsoever about what you're talking about.

When a plane crashes we don't have multiple videos taken from a few feet away plus CCTV.

Your attempts to divert this discussion from the simple facts are so blatant. If the videos showed the police officer acting completely properly, he wouldn't have been suspended. If you would like to show where in the police code of conduct or training manuals this sort of behaviour is condoned, we'll look forward to seeing it.

Usercyzabc · 28/07/2024 11:26

MrsSkylerWhite · 28/07/2024 11:16

LovelyBitOfHam · Today 01:42
It always amuses me how much some Mumsnetters hate the police.”

I certainly don’t hate the police. I respect and admire anyone who puts themselves forward. I also respect the law, though, and the officer was acting illegally.

@MrsSkylerWhite how do you deduce this?

rosiers · 28/07/2024 11:26

@MyGladEagle how do you know the officer was in a concussion state? Are you a medical expert on the scene who assessed his physical state?

MyGladEagle · 28/07/2024 11:25

FineFettler · 28/07/2024 11:24

Is there any evidence that they had all mysteriously stopped functioning, or indeed that any of them had? ls there any evidence that anyone even tried? If the other officers didn't feel it necessary to use the tasers again, it's rather telling evidence that they didn't feel the man on the ground posed on imminent threat.

I don't think you understand how this works. You've asserted that the suspect could have been tasered again if necessary.

The burden of proof on you to show that.

Were all the taser functioning at that point in time?

Swipe left for the next trending thread