tto think it should be illegal to travel abroad for anonymous egg/sperm donation?

Maybe we should stop poor people having kids? There was a (awful) thread earlier about whether you should have a kid if you have ASD/ ADHD in case you pass it on. What about women who are abandoned by their partners. Should they be allowed
to continue the pregnancy or are they just thinking of themselves? If you were a certain kind of devote Christian you might even think it was wrong for people of other religions to have children as they would grow up not having the opportunity to be saved!! The reality is that children are born into all kinds of situations , for better or worse and regardless of your subjective moral judgements about right and wrong, and no we can’t go around policing other people’s reproductive choices.

@adviceneeded1990 its not when it comes to adoption, it’s about the child, and it should wherever some form of donation is involved.

The information should always be available for the child and they can choose whether they want that information.

“It’s always about the wants of the adults”

100% bang on. You are right. The problem is that you are applying this only to the use of donor gametes. All and any form of conception/adoption is 100% about the wants of the adults.

But if you’ve managed to do so with your own eggs/sperm and no assistance needed then you are above judgement, even if you’ve conceived in terrible circumstances and given your child a shit life that results from those circumstances. As long as they know the genetic material that led to that shit life though, it’s cool. 🤷🏻‍♀️

“A group who all have issues” - those who are unhappy shout the loudest. Many of us know donor conceived people who are very happy to be here with their loving families. Playing devils advocate, why do their good experiences count for less?

@LoremIpsumCici but not everybody’s DNA is on a database

@protectoroftherealm there are strict rules about donations of other parts of your body

You want to to tell me what I can and cannot do with my eggs? Yeah alright.

I'm more concerned for children resulting from egg/sperm donation. A friend was conceived using donor eggs and it's caused her lots of issues and issues for her family. She has got to know lots of other donor conceived kids via a group who all have issues and many feel it should be banned.

But yeah, you just think of yourself rather than the consequences for those conceived using your eggs. It's always about the wants of adults rather than the needs of the children

I do think this is very relevant. Perhaps the heat of this debate has been taken out with the help of modern technologies?

*you can ban the use of donor gametes from abroad but how are you going to prove it?"
DNA, paper trail, witnesses... Same way you'd prosecute a couple who said the child they were bringing in from abroad was their biological child when actually it was a cousin they'd forged a birth certificate for.

You want to to tell me what I can and cannot do with my eggs? Yeah alright.

In the UK. And for what it’s worth I 100% agree with that! I also agree that where possible children should know their genetic origins. There is no way to police that or make it illegal though - you can ban the use of donor gametes from abroad but how are you going to prove it? How are you going to stop an ovulating woman from having a random one night stand with the intention of depriving a child of knowing their father? You can’t.

I know that there are better options available to some people. I just don’t think being conceived by a loving family using donated gametes is the worst possible thing in the world, which others seem to based on the hyperbolic language such as “evil” scattered throughout this thread.
That’s my opinion and if I get pregnant this way and my child hates me for it then it’ll be my problem. Just like if I was to conceive at 15, or with no money, or in an abusive relationship, or by a one stand night, or with a life limiting illness, or many, many other scenarios in which a child may resent you for conceiving in a way which leaves them with questions or a damaged childhood.

And that is exactly what people who are using anonymous donation are doing @drspouse I assume they wouldn’t approve of adoptive parents doing that though

I think all egg and sperm donation should be banned.

@adviceneeded1990 but we know that open adoption and knowing their genetic history are both better for children.
If you went to an adoption agency and said "I'm never going to let my child have any information about their birth family and I refuse to have any contact with them. If my child wants to meet them I will tell them no" you would not be allowed to adopt.

People will object to “whatever means possible” because it’s hyperbolic. No one here wants a child by “any means possible.”

Would I use donated eggs if necessary? Possibly. Would I abduct a baby from a maternity ward? No. Everyone has limits, no one operates on “any way possible.” It’s just people have different limits.

For example, some people would only adopt via open adoption because they feel it’s more ethical for the adoptee to keep some level of birth family contact. Others feel a closed adoption is better and avoids any confusion. Both those people have limits and things they wouldn’t do and both positions are valid.

Making people who don’t agree with you regarding the ethical nature of a type of fertility treatment sound desperate to the point of unethical is a bit unkind.

Well, I will say that you’re consistent in your use of hyperbole and stretching analogies to the extreme to the point of being irrelevant, while making up scenarios.

Going to other European countries where fertility treatment is a lot cheaper and using donor eggs or sperm is NOT synonymous with being using ‘any means possible’ to get a child. You make it sound like they’re snatching babies out of their parents’ arms, not utilising a healthcare system in a developed nation whose laws happen to be slightly different to those that pertain to the UK.

I have no idea whatsoever where you’re got the idea that people using donors think they’re ‘worthier’ parents. That’s a projection entirely of your own.

I can’t see what you are objecting to here.

There are people on this thread who are saying that the rules and regulations of the fertility industry means it is not possible for them to find or afford donor gametes in the UK, so they are going abroad where the fertility industry is not limited by such ethical constraints, where treatment is also cheaper and gametes more abundant as a result.

They are pushing things as far as the law, the science and the fertility business will allow them on their budget. They are determined to obtain child by whatever means possible. Many seem to believe this determination to try everything possible, means they are almost worthier parents, who ‘want’ the child more than parents who don’t go through this, and that this is all that’s needed to salve the child’s potential discomfort about their own origins.

It’s really not the black or white situation you seem to imagine. Many of us who don’t agree with your stance or particular lens through which you are viewing things, are not saying that people should be able to ‘obtain a child through any means possible’.

You are missing the shades of grey and nuance. Fine not to agree with posters and have a different view. Not fine to characterise anyone who disagrees with you as occupying a position at one extreme end of the spectrum when they haven’t said that’s the case.

Donors in the UK were told it would be anonymous, but then the law changed. Same could happen in other countries I guess, although no guarantees

Sad that people wanting to do some good i.e. rescue baby girls who would otherwise die can end up causing something evil. I remember the horror and outrage when that documentary was shown, it was truly horrific. Those poor babies.

I believe so, I think demand for the children started to outstrip supply.

I remember the Dying Rooms documentary and the scandal that followed and I know lots of people wanted to adopt those little girls. Was it connected to that?

Very sobering and depressing.

I think women’s rights are a harder sell aren’t they? Harder than children’s rights. Egg donation and surrogacy are couched in ‘beautiful gift’ language which obscures the exploitation.

I hope your second para is right. I just can’t imagine buying a woman’s eggs knowing absolutely nothing of her circumstances and reasons for donating.

I don’t know if anyone remembers a few decades ago, when couples would adopt ‘Chinese orphans’, and it turned out the children were kidnapped. The desire to obtain a child will be met by people with no scruples if strong ethical limits are not set.