Brother dealing with DV case at work

You say that work HR have been hopeless. With respect they simply have far better boundaries. Their role involves dealing with employment matters. not extracting an employer from a lifetime of domestic violence which she seems unable to leave for long. They probably know nothing much about domestic violence either. HR are on the side of the employer that pays them and are not some all-purpose do-gooders for employees.

I also do think she has designs on your BIL. It's why she continues to call him despite supposedly leaving and being safe. I suspect she is a woman who goes from relationship to relationship as she is not confident on her own. At the very least she wants his attention to the detriment of your SIL.

However, this woman is no wallflower, she perpetuates situations. Argues and ‘winds up’ her partner knowing how things will end.

if this is how you and he think - please know it is victim blaming nonsense.

YANBU about your brother and he needs to escalate to his manager and try and take a step back. He is not helping this woman.

YAB very U about saying she goads her partner. Unless you have experienced DV you cannot possibly know. It's a cycle and you know it's coming as you tread on more eggshells and so you may provoke the situation just to get it over and done with, towards the end I stuck up for myself because I was sick of being a victim of his abuse which obviously didn't the situation better but made me feel slightly more in control.

This women's behaviour shows a pattern of behaviour that she is likely completely unaware that she is doing. Normally victims of domestic violence have experienced it throughout their lives to the point where it feels "safe" because it is familiar. This is why victims are often attracted to attackers. It's completely unconscious.

You say she provokes and causes arguments, that will also be unconscious and something she has learned to do for whatever reason.

Your brother is now playing the role of the saviour. He cannot save her. She needs therapy to look at why she is drawn to these kinds of relationships. Without that insight she will continue down this road.

I would recommend that your brother writes himself a script and he simply repeats it. Perhaps something like:

"I'm so sorry this has happened to you. Do you need to number of the refuge centre again? Remember we talked about this before, I really think you should seek help from a professional as I don't have the experience to help you conquer this".

He needs to stop playing his role. He cannot save someone who is completely unaware of what they are doing.

Then it sounds like he's so embedded that it's already too late I'm afraid. He needs to have his own light bulb moment of realisation with this unfortunately. Nothing anyone else does or says will make any difference until he sees it himself. The reality is he has now become a part of the problem rather than a part of the solution.

And, to add, there was nothing anyone welll meaning could have said that would have made any difference at that time. I wanted and needed their comfort and their reassurance that it wasn't right but I had no idea that it could be different. Or how to make it different. I was in survival mode not making things better mode. And it was still all I had ever known.

Neither of us can understand why, if she’s left him, she’s still texting at all times of night.

With respect, this is why she needs professional help and not your brother. Because they would understand why she is still doing it.

A bit of personal insight, if it helps.

I grew up with mental and physical abuse. My dad was unpredictable and would 'go' without warning on a near daily basis. As a teenager, I would goad him and provoke him on occasion because sitting with the calm and the silence and not knowing if or when it was going to happen that day was unbearable. At least if I'd deliberately caused it, I was in control. Or that's how it felt at the time. I also knew that he felt bad afterwards sometimes and it also had to feel bad to him to be that angry and wound up. In my head, I was playing him at his own game. He made me feel bad; I made him feel bad. That was my power in the situation.

When I started dating, it was all I'd ever known. I felt safer with violent angry men than those who weren't because those who weren't felt false and like I was in a perpetual state of 'the calm before the storm' even when they weren't like that and the storm was never going to come. I was anxious all the time.

I provoked and goaded too. I dumped the ones who didn't react because the uncertainty was too much amd I just assumed they had no feelings for me at all. As bad as the violet ones were, I felt relief and it felt cathartic when it happened. Because I knew where I was in the cycle rather than feeling I was caught in limbo somewhere in the cycle.

That doesn't mean I liked it though and I would offload to people because i fel ppain and sadness and loneliness, and i also knew it wasnt right. But it was all I knew. It was the only relationship dynamic I knew.

I was in my 30s before I really understood that violence payed no part in any relationship and now I won't even date someone who raises their voice. But it took a long time and a lot of therapy to get to that point.

to use a metaphor. This woman isn't someone whose 'normal' was ever where yours and your family's is. So shes never going to get back to that. She's not even on the same playing field. She's playing a completely different sport on a completely different surface and with completely different set of rules and equipment. She knows how to play her sport - She's an expert at it. She doesn't even know the name of yours.

He should send her a link to a DV charity and say he thinks she should contact them in future with concerns as he isn’t an expert and his advice doesn’t seem to be helping. It’s fine for him to be honest on the toll it’s taking on him.

Exactly this. It isn't just her who needs to detach from the situation. Your brother does too. He has become a part of the cycle and is now playing a role. Until he stops doing that she won't stop running to him. That's your real problem here - your brother. And I bet as much as she always says she's going to leave but never does, your brother always says he's going to stop getting involved again but never does. I'm right, aren't I?

A pp was right that he has been given a role in the drama.

This woman is deeply enmeshed in her situation because, as you say, this is all she has ever known. She goads and picks fights with her partner rather than leaving him because the calm and the peace feels uncomfortable and unnerving to her. The violence hurts emotionally, mentally and physically but here is a comfort in it too. It's 'predictable' and familiar. She needs far more help than your brother will ever be able to provide.

Your brother is behaving very inappropriately. He doesn't understand dv, doesn't have the skillset to support this woman or deal with the situation appropriately and doesn't have the supervision that therapists have to help him to deal with the impact it's having on him. He hasn't put any boundaries in place so it is now impacting on his home life.

His involvement could actually be making the situation worse.

You need to spell out to your brother that his marriage is at risk here. Who is more important, this woman or his wife?

He's crossed the boundaries here. If HR are useless then he goes back to the Head of HR and tells them to step up. He doesn't step in.
SIL is quite right to step in and Brother should now be assured this woman is in the right place for help. He can't be her saviour

He needs to stop, she may use her relationship with him and play it off to the boyfriend dispute it being just a friendship and him trying to help. He could be at risk her if the person is violent and sees your bother as a threat. It's really important that this stops

OK so I'm very much a saviour type. The only person you should do this level of involvement with is your own family. What's gone on here is its gone quite skewed but is very much salvageable.

He needs to gradually lower the contact with her. Don't stop altogether suddenly. Extend the length of time between replying to a message. If it needs to, increase by hours, then up to a few weeks, then stop.

I would probably as a sister have a stern conversation with brother, firm but loving, empathetic but clear, about impact on SIL. He may also need some counselling as there is vicarious trauma.

There are some people who are emotional vampires who suck the life out of people who try to help them. This woman has no intention of leaving her abusive partner.

Now I don't know of the apparent black cloud of domestic violence but there is no reason for your untrained brother to be trying to rescue this woman who has had multiple chances to leave and used none of them.

Frankly, I don't intervene in this sort of personal matter for the staff I manage let alone random colleagues. Your brother is not being kind, he is being stupid and deluded and he should look to his own responsibilities including his partner. His colleague will have to find somebody else to dump her emotions on.

Your brother needs to step back. It's not his job to support her and he's not qualified to do so. He needs to refer her to professionals that can help. And try to keep his work life out of his home life.

Your brother shouldn't get sucked into her chaotic life becoming someone's sounding board is extremely draining,I done it and never again.The person's problems become my problems as I was devoting a lot of time thinking of solutions to help.
His colleague needs professional help not your brother.

I do feel for the brother in this. If a colleague confides in you that they are the victim of DV, most of us would presumably want to help in the first instance. He's undoubtedly found himself in the rescuer role but it might be more a case of him being coaxed into an ongoing saga, through a sense of guilt, rather than actually actively wanting to rescue her. It's probably particularly difficult for a work colleague. Hopefully it will pass, now, given the updates.

This woman is very damaged. She is in extreme danger of going back to her abuser if she isn't supported at this time and it's quite worrying you think it's over because she has "left".

Can your DB keep sending her links to Refuge, Women's Aid and the local police every time she messages him? Didnt work give her alternative support so she doesn't have to contact DB - can he keep mentioning that? Although... are any of her messages seeking support with a roof over her head for the night?