Brother dealing with DV case at work

if DA is all she’s ever known & is her immediate present then ofc her behaviour will be directly influenced by those experiences & current fear

what’s your brother’s excuse?

”he’s digging his heels in”
”hr are useless”
“he’s making my SIL feel bad for having an issue with him being so involved*

So

‘he knows better than anyone else’
‘he’s the only one who can help’
‘no-one should be questioning his behaviour’

even his own life partner who is being negatively impacted by that behaviour

Some men act all white-knighty, cross all sorts of boundaries & end up with a she owes me now belief

and that would be awful if he started out with genuinely altruistic intentions

like PP suggest - the abused colleague is not the problem for your brother - his own behaviour is the problem

@Cericwtch she is messaging him because he has become her number one support.

She will be even more lost and lonely for a while if she has left her partner and will likely want even more contact and support from your brother to try to keep her strong/away from him.

Are you the sister in all honesty or are you the wife trying to seek a way to deal with this?

Your brother isn't a 'nice guy' if his wife has to sit him down and explain the effect his bullshit is having on her.
He needs to block her damn number.

Brava @PocketSand BRAVA!

well said.

If you don't understand why women stay in an abusive relationships don't speculate and victim blame.

Of course it's irrational. Duh! Goading, irrational. Being submissive, irrational. Any way of living, irrational. Staying, irrational. Leaving, irrational.

Imagine being a prisoner in a cage with an unlocked door who don't dare to walk through - even with your children - welcome to the reality of domestic abuse.

Thank god for women's aid.

Your DB is not the helping this woman needs. I think he is putting his need to be a saviour ahead of hers. I hope to god he is not seeing her as an easy victim.

Yes and it's why there are so many difficulties around pressing charges against men who harm women because as soon as we don't behave in the way someone thinks a victim should behave, people say things like If she is a genuine victim...

I've said in my post, sometimes it's easier to shout back as it will end the cycle of torment waiting for them to explode. They are usually nice again for a bit.

This. My instinctive reaction when a man slapped me was to punch him in the face and beat him with a lampshade. When he slapped my thigh really hard in the car because he was in a bad mood I threw my hot drink onto his crotch. When he shouted at me in public I always, always shouted back.

I was not a ‘victim’ in the way the media portray dv. I didn’t cower in fear and so none of the usual strategies worked. It actually it took me beating up my abuser for the abuse to stop.

HR and step away.

NOT that I’m blaming here, far from it the guy is a monster.

You have blamed her at least three times that I can see.

DV victims are usually submissive and cowed in the presence of their abuser - they want to avoid confrontation and keep their abusers good will. They don’t wind them up - that is the hallmark of the abuser.

Some DV victims. Some.

In the way some rape.victims fight back and others freeze. In the way some women challenge threatening men and others fawn.

There is no.one way of responding.

I certainly didn't "cower in the presence" of my abuser and I was 8 when it started and 17 when he moved out and it stopped. He was 6'2. I'm 5'3 ", and I was terrified.

In fact, there were times I'd stand there, bruised and in pain, slow clapping him saying, "Well done, big man.

So, no, there no universal 'usually'.

I think this is key. It may actually be that she has been in a series of toxic relationships and if, as you suggest, she is goading and winding him up I’d say that the ‘DV’ may run both ways as she seems to have her own line in psychological abuse and manipulation. I think he needs to see that ‘just because she is a woman’ doesn’t mean that she is the victim. He should step away completely and keep referring her on to professionals.

My mother was like this woman - pretty, affected an air of vulnerability and feminine fragility but would keep goading, picking at, making snide remarks to make you react. Did this to my stepdad and even me as a teenager. I underwent years of it; caustic, snidey, abusive and humiliating comments hundreds of times a day. I snapped at 14 and thumped her on the back (once, close fisted, was much smaller than her) when she said something utterly unforgivable … and she then told the entire world that I beat her up. I never raised a hand to her or anyone again (fortunately school had the measure of her and were incredibly supportive to me, although I wonder to this day why SS weren’t called). DV victims are usually submissive and cowed in the presence of their abuser - they want to avoid confrontation and keep their abusers good will. They don’t wind them up - that is the hallmark of the abuser.

I suspect this woman is similar. He needs to look past her guise of femininity and refer her on. He needs to read up on Dv and the fact that women can be perpetrators too (esp if they’ve grown up in a DV environment). And he shoudl watch that programme on that poor guy who was beaten up and abused by his wife in front of his kids that was on a few months ago.

If she is a genuine DV victim, she needs to choose to leave. Noone can’t help her until she makes that decision.

Whilst it’s not your brothers problem to deal with please be aware that when women appear to goad a violent man there is a valid reason. That being she knows an attack is coming and the anticipation is unbearable and so she forces the situation to get it over with.
This woman needs professional help but may not yet be able to leave. It’s not really a choice, she is still trapped and her situation could go on for years and even lead to her death. Awful as it is, she may only feel ‘comfortable’ in or worthy of a violent relationship

Apparently work HR have been useless, hence my bro stepping in.

Which means what exactly? Not being on tap counsellors, signposting services that she is unwilling or unable to contact, being professionally detached? If the victim changes their tune or the perpetrator gets involved, your dbro could easily become the target of a complaint and his work role be affected. Not to mention the effect on his mh and wellbeing.

That is so sad to read, Thoughtful

This is exactly what is meant by hurt people hurt people.

It's not intentional but people lack boundaries and get drawn in. Such a shame your ex didn't draw the line sooner.

You said "HR have been useless" and implied that's why she's still contacting your brother and why he's still responding. Is that he feels that haven't supported him enough or that he feels they haven't done enough for her?

I ask because it's also possible that HR have offered her appropriate support but have drawn boundaries on how that works - so for example no calling the HR person at night or weekends. I work in HR and whilst I'll be supportive and helpful, using all the resources available to me, I simply can't have staff members contacting me outside of ours unless its a true emergency and I am the only appropriate option (and assuming not a police/ambulance type matter).

For example I will respond to a message about a staff member being injured on duty or the office building is burning down, but its clear I am not there for personal issues or just as a 'listening ear'. I am not a counsellor or a medical professional - I can't help people in distress any more than any other layperson. I've dealt with staff members with serious mental health conditions be sectioned, threaten suicide and self harm for example. I do what I can, advise on what help company can provide, emergency referrals to Occ Health or EAP services, signpost to appropriate organisations for help, called acute MH services, contacted next of kin, etc but I'm simply not the person to be handling that outside of work. Otherwise it would burn me out in the same way your brother is being affected.

So he needs to go back to HR if he needs more help and he must step away from responding to this woman outside of working hours.

This is a hard one for me as I've been in this situation. My boyfriend just wanted to help her, I think she had feelings for him and wanted a white knight but liked the drama she half caused.

It broke our relationship even though beforehand it had been really amazing, but I couldn't deal with his lack of time and felt he was drifting too far away. I spoke on it many times but she would just push harder for attention. I left him and 7 months later he finally blocked her as apparently it was affecting his work due to lack of sleep etc. he wanted me back but I never went back as I just couldn't have those bad memories of not being his priority

He's now got himself in so deep that it's affecting his own life and marriage, he's at risk of his own wife leaving. Unless he steps right back, blocks her then this won't stop, she has become dependent on him and he's as bad for continuing the drama.

I've just seen he's her manager. He needs to respect boundaries between personal and professional. I think a manager should step away from this. Different if he were a colleague on the same level.

Your brother sounds like a wonderful man.

It seems to me like this woman is not ready or willing to leave. She just wants someone to talk to.

And people will only leave when ready.

So I recommend that your brother is a good friend and listens to her but doesn't start getting officials etc involved as she can do that when she is ready. I also recommend your brother tells her he will listen but she must stop winding her partner up (this is no excuse for DV but it's not fair your brother is giving him time to her but she's not helping herself). When they talk he says at the start I have 20 minutes then need to go or such and when he gets off the phone he puts it out of his mind.

Victims of DV deserve to have someone to talk to but your brother also deserves to have a calm home life and not to have his relationship impacted negatively by others

If this approach still doesn't work then your brother has to walk away completely from the situation and block her number etc.

Good luck.

Agree he is getting too involved with a vulnerable employee. It could easily backfire or they become too attached and dependant on him. Tell him to refer her hr for support and he may need to repeat his referral whenever she raises issues to him again.

Brefugee

My last paragraph was a general comment and not aimed you.

The behaviours can be real even if the motivation is not understood.

At least one other poster and I have explained why it happens.

Disagree and explain by all means but shutting it down as 'victim blaming nonsense' stops people from talking and understanding. It took someone explaining it to me for me to understand why I did it and ultimately change it. If they hadn't recognised it, for fear of 'victim blaming', I might never have had that understanding.

It also explains why, however well meaning, most people just don't have the skills or understanding to support someone who is very much caught up in this.

I also do think she has designs on your BIL. It's why she continues to call him despite supposedly leaving and being safe. I suspect she is a woman who goes from relationship to relationship as she is not confident on her own. At the very least she wants his attention to the detriment of your SIL

I also think this is a very valid point.

During the really bad times, I developed crushes on married men especially ones who were kind to me.

I didn't know how to be in a relationship with men like that but I also felt attracted to their kindness and safety.

The fact they were married made them feel safe to me because it was a barrier to being involved with then. I wouldn't have ever had an affair but, when I look back, I did do things that would have crossed boundaries (although I didn't realise it at the time).

As someone else said, none of this is conscious decision making. It's the result of having been seriously fucked up and having completely distorted world view that feels normal at the time.

Your brother is a fool, though, if he doesn't protect himself and his marriage and, ultimately, that is what she needs him to do too.

Yeah, that's how blokes who want to have affairs with vulnerable women start.