To think dressage is cruel and also ludicrous?

The CD episode has demonstrated why the Olympic disciplines can't claim moral superiority over racing. You are very naive if you think wastage, doping and all manner of cruel practices aren't happening in the sport horse world. Racing is not a 'billion times more cruel.'

That said, it is perfectly possible to compete horses ethically and without compromising welfare. Lots of professionals and amateurs doing this. Dismissing a whole sport as ludicrous usually reveals a generalised antipathy based on ignorance and bias (see class stereotypes). In my experience these folk aren't willing to consider the inconsistencies in their views. They often think nothing of the abuses involved in commercial meat production or pet ownership. Sadly there is potential for abuse in any animal human relationship. It is my view that horse sport is not inherently cruel but there must be strict regulation and sanction to uphold horse welfare.

Yes, it is my ethical position. Human beings can choose. Elephants in circuses can't choose to stop doing humiliating acts. Most people think that is wrong. What animal would choose to be trained to do any of the acts circus animals do? If they turn on the trainer they will most likely be killed. Performing for the entertainment of humans isn't acceptable unless the performer gives consent. And no animal can consent. It's why bestiality is wrong. No animal consents to having sex with a human. I don't approve of dog racing or horse racing either. No one gives a toss about the welfare of those animals. Thank goodness hunting with dogs is illegal now.

That is your ethical position and not everyone agrees.

There are dog sports where the attitude of the dog (whether it is happy and confident) is part of the judging process, and a flat and miserable dog would not succeed in field trialling. Competition is how you know who can train to a high standard (that is, whose methods work), and it also helps to select future breeding stock.

Really? I steward at BD and draw reins are frequently spotted in the lorry park. They are taken off before the warm up.
Also frequently see riders who don't have stable lower legs using spurs and over tight horses being rewarded at Intro-Medium over those with looser frames.

No sport should involve animals. That's it really.

Dressage done at your average club level does not lend itself to that kind of thing. I think elite level competition brings it out

A dressage whip should be used like a blackboard pointer. You can't verbally tell a horse that it needs to move the left whatever across-you need to touch it. Horses communicate via touch, even to each other.

Some dressage is essential for any horse. It SHOULD be about good communication between horse and rider. Of course, you make anything high stakes, and things get warped.

*volume

Classical dressage is all about training the horse's body to support their fitness over time, something like pilates does for humans. Classical dressage moves are all things you might see a fit athletic and happy horse do spontaneously by themselves at play, just refined. And refined is the word, the training methods for classical dressage are all about supporting the horse and refining their movement in incremental stages over a long period of time as their fitness develops.

It still broadly serves this purpose and proves the all round trainability and versatility of a horse and the skill of their rider in the 3 day eventing (which has just been on this weekend).

The competition of pure dressage (yet to come in this olympics and is the sport that C. DJ has just been banned from) is a bit of a far cry from classical dressage and I do think has lost it's way.

What CDJ was filmed doing is wholly unacceptable and is not necessary for the sport. It wasn't even productive, as effectiveness as a training method goes it is also just pointless - it just made a horse scared and sore, it didn't improve their movement.

There are good and bad in any sport, and equestrian rightly comes under scrutiny as it involves animals. CDJ was famous in the horse world for being one of the good ones for horse welfare, which is why this revelation is even more shocking and disappointing to us.

From a horse welfare point of view jumping has it's unique problems and racing has more obvious ones, and it's are WAY more endemic and it churns through a much higher vote of horses.

This

This

I do use it but not to whip
I tap with it or press it if I'm using it as an aid
Also used to brush off flies, open gates, pick up a dropped glove, stick out sideways to slow cars down....

The problem is that it isn't just the use of whips, it is rollkur, bleeding mouths (which CDJ has also had), bleeding sides from spurs, use of draw reins and gadgets to get a false outline.
Done correctly and classically, dressage is grateful and harmonious, the issue is that the majority of horses aren't trained that way

@spikeandbuffy if you didn't use the Whip, why did you carry it?

It's horrible. My neighbours used to do it. The poor horses spent all day in a stable then would be out in the manège for an hour doing boring, overly controlled exercises, then trawled around in a horse box all over the place at weekends. It made me so sad to watch them. We need to rethink our relationship with animals. Dressage, horse racing etc are all quite horrible. No better than circus animals.

The way we treat animals generally is vile.

Hope Charlotte D meets the same fate, would make my day.

@Sunshineandpool I mean yes - I'm not saying what she did was right at all but not all dressage is cruel and not all whips are evil
It's just capturing a movement a horse does in the wild and teaching it on command
Effectively like teaching a dog to sit or give a paw or roll over

If I had whipped her she would have just ditched me. I did carry a whip and also wore ball spurs for various reasons but never to hurt and never used in anger

Maybe whipping it??

Bit like for the female contestants in Strictly!

You're forgetting cats. Cats have trained us to do as they tell us....

Before the video was released there were tonnes of comments along the lines of "it's a conspiracy to ruin GB chances at the Olympics"....despite it being very clear in Charlotte's statement and that of the FEI there was evidence relating to horse welfare / abuse.

Now the video has been shared I've seen people say "yes it was bad but we all make mistakes" etc. There is still minimising and the view that this was an isolated incident of "poor judgement".

Athletes and gymnasts are essentially abusing their bodies, but it is their choice.

That is the difference. No horse asks to do this.

Same…
The consensus I see is:

• Disappointment in Dujardin and sometimes a level of concern for her mental wellbeing
• Dissapointment in whoever had this footage and sat on it for this length of time - obviously it was only leaked to sabotage team GB in the Olympics and not because of animal welfare or it would have been released long ago
• Sadness at what this will do to our prospects at the Olympics
• Sadness that the distressed horse went through that

I’m yet to see any ‘defence’

You obviously know little about horses. Dressage, when done without beating, isn’t cruel at all.
You can have someone beating something or someone in any industry and it would become ‘cruel’.