To say F*** OFF to my ingrate teenagers

Best post!

They sound like awful shitbags and I feel sorry for you as to how you are being treated. Lots of people make excuses about teens being teens but I really don't know anyone who behaves like this or even growing up. Pack them off to their father for a while, tell them exactly why and let them learn the consequences.
Don't leave them to think this is ok, they will grow up to be vile adults too if they don't realise how bad their behaviour is.

I agree with the suggestion that them going to their father for half the holidays is an excellent idea.
I would be clear with them you absolutely want a break from their behaviour.
Take the break and enjoy it.
I have friends who work full-time and it really is eye opening how little they do for their late teen children.

No laundry, cooking 2/3 times a week max, online basic shop only, no treats or junk food, they buy their own, kids doing house work.
All lovely kids and they just get on with it.

These women work 50 hour weeks, late 50's and know they can only do so much and that their careers fund a lot of the privileges their children enjoy.

Time for dad to step up, whether the kids like it or not. He gets a quiet, peaceful life, while you have to put up with their appalling behaviour? No way. They should spend at least half the holidays with him, regardless of whether they want to. I think it's fine to tell them that you are fed up with their shitty attitudes and behaviour and need a break. So off they go for 3 weeks. It might be the wake up call they need.

They sound challenging so yes maybe some repercussions like withdrawing of allowance would be appropriate. Teenagers can be difficult but yours sound particularly so. Get yourself out and about and offer cinema trips or whatever if they treat you with respect. Let them cook their own meals and wash their own clothes. Enlist your exes help with not throwing money at them. That just makes them think they can do whatever they like with no consequences.

I hope you're ok OP, reading the responses can't be easy. I've got 2 a bit older than yours (16 and 20). I get how frustrating teenagers can be. But yours have obviously crossed the line. It can be fixed. It doesn't have to be this way, it really doesn't. Yes, it will take time, and they aren't going to like it and they're going to be very vocal about the fact that they don't like it.

But at this age they've only got a few more years before they'll be leaving school and entering young adulthood proper - the aim now is to start teaching them basic life skills. Doing their own laundry. Basic domestic hygiene. Basic cooking. How to live with other people as adults.

Sometimes they will mess it up and there will be makeup in the wash. It's not the end of the world. Oh dear, never mind, check pockets next time. And repeat until the penny drops. The key is to not let one screw up mean that they don't have to do it again. All your teach them with that is that incompetence pays - don't want to do something? Do it badly and you won't have to. My eldest now does her laundry without prompting. Youngest still needs reminding - machine is empty now, do your laundry. You need to hang it out. You need to change your sheets. If he doesn't then he's wearing dirty underpants, and that's his problem.

If they leave mess, they get called back immediately to deal with it. You didn't clean up your sandwich things. There's pee on the seat. You need to replace the loo roll. They don't get told off and I don't make a fuss about why are they like this, I just say you need to do x. Complaining and eyerollling are ignored. If you don't do it, WiFi goes off until it's done. Again, they get the message eventually.

With housework stuff the rule is that we all live here therefore we all chip in. The pair of them clean up after dinner every day, washing up/drying pots/clearing the table. They can make beds, vacuum, clean a toilet, wash a car, iron a shirt, prep a basic meal.

They both know that I will go in their bedroom and clean it if it starts to smell. Therefore if they don't want me in there, they have to clean it.

From what you've said I wonder if you have a little bit tried to reward them into behaving better and it's backfired to some extent as what's actually been rewarded is the bad behaviour - kick off and you don't have to do it/eat it/wash it. Almost that it's become a habit. But if it is a habit, it can be changed (though you will have to stick to your guns and hold out for what you want when they resist, which they will).

I would start with just the laundry for a couple of weeks. Get them into the habit of doing their own, let them make mistakes and learn from them, then pick the next thing.

OP, unfortunately they have been spoiled and have turned into ugly teens.
Not all teens are ugly and most parents wouldn't tolerate such behaviour.

You need a zero tolerance approach.
No more money.
No more laundry.
No lifts.
Reply No to ANY question.
Buy basic food, not treats/junk food whatsoever ever....your bill will shrink.

Do not engage with them. Avoid them in the house.

When the penny drops with them that you mean business you leave THEM to come to you to sort things out.
YOU tell them what you expect from them.

If they don't agree tell them things will remain as is.
They need part time jobs.

OP we teach people how to treat us and that includes teens.
They are ugly ill mannered teens that will soon morph into ugly young adults unless you get your shit together and get real.

Get your Ex on board with no futher funding of pocket money.

Think of this as helping them, because you are.
They are on a wrong path and they need you to show them that their behaviour is wrong and will no longer be tolerated.

Do not shout or get upset, just implement the above and show them it is a complete non negotiable.

Teens can be self serving and self absorbed.
They are well able to adjust their behaviour quickly when self interest demands it.

If they become abusive because of the above, Tell them their phones will be turned off, and mean it.

Ah ok.

I was also never like that , the staying in rooms is the normal I was referring to, nothing normal about the nasty behaviour. My kids also never behave like that .

I always try to (A) pick my battles and (B) think of actions and natural consequences eg

(1) they don't clear up after themselves? Bung their stuff in bag for life in their bedroom. Keep buying more bags for life, if required. They'll tidy it eventually

(2) they don't put dirty laundry in the laundry basket, or don't sort it to ensure pockets are empty? Leave them to do their own laundry. They'll wash their clothes eventually

(3) they leave the bathroom in a state? Let it deteriorate. They'll clean it eventually. In the meantime, use your en suite (if you have one), or join a gym and shower elsewhere.

(4) they don't eat food you cooked for them? Let them order and pay for delivery pizza. It's expensive. They won't do it often

(5) they're rude about the food you buy? Ask them to prepare a shopping list

(5) they're rude to you? Leave the room

(6) they complain about their allowance? If you're comfortable with what you've decided to give them, then hold firm. If they want more, they could earn it by doing chores over and above "normal" household chores eg don't pay them for emptying the dishwasher

(7) they bring mud into the house, constantly, despite you asking them to leave shoes in the porch? Explain to them that No, you don't have time to take them into town, as you required to clean the floor again. Eventually, if carpet is damaged by mud, explain to them that they'll only get a selection box at Christmas, because you had to pay to replace the carpet

If you take this approach, I think that you'll need to have the confidence to hold firm (not easy), your house will deteriorate temporarily (unpleasant), but eventually, they'll work out that it's in their own best interests to treat you / your house with respect

IMHO, this is better than arbitrary punishments eg removing their phones, changing wifi passwords etc

I wouldn't go scorched earth. You need to hold something in reserve, so you have the means to escalate, if needs be.

Pick the 3 most important areas for concern. For me, it would be dirty dishes brought to the kitchen and washed, not leaving mud/mess in common areas, cleaning the bathroom after use. Yours might be different, but choose the 3 that piss you off the most.
Then link reward with improvement in those areas.

No shouting, a simple calm connection between behaviour and reward/consequence.
So,If they track mud into the house and refuse to clean it up, they don't get a door key and you will make them remove their shoes outside under supervision. Since they clearly cannot be trusted to let themselves in.
If they wash their dishes/tidy the bathroom after use, they earn their allowance. Allowance is linked to behaviour, it's not a God given right.
Ask your ex to work with you on this so they can't just get money from him instead.

Re food, I wouldn't make a big deal of this. Cook what you want to cook, if they don't want it then their alternative is to make themselves cereal or a sandwich. No skin off your nose, is the message you want to convey here. They will struggle to order themselves pizza when their allowance runs out!

Save withdrawal of wifi/X box for later. You need a nuclear option for the really bad behaviour.

I agree with the posters who say that you continue to provide the basics, but the niceties are to be earned and are rewards for doing their share. And that's how you phrase it to them - they are growing up and aren't kids, so need to contribute as the independent people they are becoming.
When they ask for a lift somewhere you say 'sure, when you've done your washing up I'll be happy to take you'.

What has helped my dd (16) is getting a little job as a pot washer/waitress in a pub. She is learning what work feels like and how much of it you have to do in order to earn enough money to buy a mascara or something. It stops them taking their allowance for granted because they see how hard they'd have to work to replace that money if allowance stopped.

Doesn’t like normal behaviour whatsoever

I was never like that, I wouldn’t have dared. Surely saying it’s normal is like giving them a pass?

Great advice here

You're right, mine were the same with the huffiness and lurking in bedrooms.
Never rude like this though. You've got to put those boundaries in place early on.

I meant the staying in the rooms not the nastiness. I think a lot of groundwork goes into raising kids, if they are let away with stuff in their younger years they tend to grow up with the idea it's OK. I've raised 3 who have never been nasty to me but I do get the eye rolling occasionally

I don't think it's "normal" to be so abusive and rude to your parent.
It's certainly not acceptable and I don't understand why people think it is.

Yabu stop the allowance make them responsible for themselves, they sound like normal teens to me tbh. Did they ever help around the house?

But she didn’t ignore him she answered him back

I have found parenting teens the hardest stage of parenthood by far. I think it’s very important to look after yourself first - find something to do that brings you joy each day. For me it’s a long walk in the morning and reading a good book in the evening. If you are in a better frame of mind you will be in a better position to parent more effectively.

It won’t be possible to fix all the issues at once so just start with the problem that causes you the most angst. If it’s the food calmly tell them you will only be cooking one healthy meal and if they don’t like it they get to cook for themselves at their own cost. They then have to wash all the dishes and if it’s not done by x time then there will be a consequence.

If it’s the laundry, either tell them they are responsible for their own washing or you may decide to only wash clothes that are in the basket and you will not be checking pockets.

Do not accept any rudeness or disrespectful behaviour. If they start mouthing off tell them “I do not tolerate being spoken to like that” and calmly walk away, even leave the house if you need to. The louder they get, the quieter and calmer you get.

You will need to follow through with consequences and be consistent for the behaviour to change. Suggest a few fun things to do together and if they refuse just go by yourself or a friend. They need to realise your life does not revolve around them and their moods.

THIS. I remember being a (horrible) teenager and one day my mum didn't come home from work at her usual time of 5.30ish during the school holidays. These were the days before mobile phones. I rang her work (no answer as they were closed), couldn't get hold of my dad, rang my grandma who said she had no idea where my mum was (in hindsight she was clearly lying to me!) and then went into a mass panic.

I remember the sheer relief when she walked through the door late at night (probably 8ish but felt a lot later 😂). She was acting all calm and aloof and told me she'd been out for dinner with her friends as I had told her the night before I "didn't even need her". She said if I continued to be a horrendous excuse for a human being then she would go out every day after work and I could fend for myself until I left home. Never happened again.

The problem is, teenagers think they are completely self-sufficient and grown up but once they have a taste of reality then they revert back to being children who just need their mum / dad.

**
Don’t cook for them, just for yourself. They can sort their own meals out.

Disagree with this. You all take turns preparing meals.

Stop running around behind them.

This is the perfect time to teach them a lesson.

Put enough crockery/cutlery for you in one place then when they’ve used up all the clean stuff, they’ll have no choice but to wash up.

Don’t do their laundry. They’re old enough to work out how to use a machine. They’re not going to school so no one to judge you.

Don’t cook for them, just for yourself. They can sort their own meals out.

Presumably, they’ll be going off to uni when they’re 18 so will need to be able to do these things for themselves then.

Inform them, money/allowance will be paid out when chores are done.

This is absolutely brilliant 😂

My kids are a lot younger than yours but I was rather soft towards them if they behaved rude or badly. I always wanted to show that being calm and a good example was better. DH on the other hand is very old school (not hitting or anything) but the things he would say made me feel sorry for them - basically words and shouting that are not encouraged these days! However, they used to listen to him like it was a military school, tidy their bed, take their plates away and get ready immediately. It was so frustrating to see me asking them to clean up 20 times nicely and be ignored and he shouts 'get up and clean your bloody room!' and they immediately listen. He has forced them to pay for things out of their birthday money when they lose things. He has once thrown their Nintendo switch in the bin when they didn't listen (he got it out eventually but for a week they thought it was destroyed). I'm not saying fear is always the answer but it was the only thing that worked. If they say anything out of turn he will openly say 'who the f* do you think you are!!' very shouty and angressively - but never physical. I didn't like it for a while and we had numerous arguments over these tactics but it has worked and they are now really decent and respectful. I do think these days there is an overall less respect for adults and authority as I think we sometimes try and be friends with children first. I am not advocating this aggression at all, as I didn't like it. I do think my softer approach was a good balance and if we were both like DH that wouldn't be good but just letting you know my experience as I sympathise.