TAs does your primary school have them?

This doesn’t mean that the class TA is taken away and becomes a 1:1 to that student?

It’s always been drummed into me that the school pays their part and they have to. I’ve even heard it suggested that this is why schools aren’t too keen to support parents when they want to apply for ehcps.

That’s true the school does not need to fund the first £6k of SEP in EHCPs. EHCPs can be fully funded.

No I know, but a poster upthread has said the notional £6000 does not need to be funded by the school and is ultimately an LA responsibility.

Under section 42 of the Children and Families Act 2014 the LA is ultimately responsible for ensuring the SEP detailed, specified and quantified in F is provided. This is an absolute duty and is non-delegable. It includes ensuring there is sufficient funding. Funding is not a lawful excuse for failing to provide the SEP in EHCPs. LAs can be forced to provide the SEP via JR.

I have supported numerous parents across the country to enforce their DC’s EHCP and done the same for my DC.

No, the parents do, sigh. Because we don't have enough on our plates.

Schools are expected to cover a certain amount of SEND provision, whether that child has an EHCP or not.

Then any costs over and above that needs to be met by the LA, paid to the school.

That's standard. The challenge is agreeing that level of funding, but it's possible.

That's crazy and I've never heard of no TAs in a school, they are vital!

My son's primary school has TAs but they leave regularly. They are paid next to nothing, that's the problem.

The whole situation is such a shame.

I'm genuinely also interested to hear more about this, particularly how an LA school can force an LA to fund it. The LA would not allow a school to take the LA to court surely?

The 1:1 for the child with an EHCP is funded by the LA for the provision of support to that child. The school can't be using that 1:1 to provide cover on the classroom.

I think it is wishful thinking (hoping) that subject teachers are trained in additional needs. I mean the school will say all staff have been trained but when you have a SEN child you realise that means precisely nothing!

I don't understand what you mean by 1:1s not being realistic? If they're needed, they're needed. Why should parents complain?

Surely it would be argued that the school already has an allocated budget for part payment of an ehcp. I’ve personally never heard of a school not funding part of one or demanding it’s covered by the LA. I would love to know where you have heard about this?

That's dreadful. My DD is at Secondary but they have lots of LSAs.

How can a school provide SEN support to DC that require it without TAs/LSAs?

I think this can only be to do with the difference in pupil funding by county, unless there are a lot of lower main scale teachers? Schools round here with 60-70 pupils in affluent areas are struggling to even run 3 classes because they get so little PP funding. Scarcity funding also helps but it's quite common to get a lot of very small schools within quite a tight rural area and so they don't qualify. I'd expect a 70 pupil school to have about 2.8 FTE of teachers, a full time KS1 TA and a full time KS2 one, not counting any 1:1s.

and there are no other TAs the school can afford (which is the case)

Again, EHCPs can be fully funded. If the school needs more money to deliver the SEP in F that is between them and the LA. The LA is ultimately responsible for ensuring it is provision, the school could also support parents to enforce their DC’s EHCPs via judicial review.

Some TAs are just as qualified, if not more qualified, than the teacher. Some TAs just think they know better than the teacher. The way it works is that the teacher is effectively the TA’s line manager in the classroom. The “velcro TA” isn’t necessarily the best way to support even the most high needs child.

My concern is external consultants deciding how much support a student should have. That should be the role of the SENCo.

But it’s not 1 child in a class anymore. If I had to work with just one child and there are no other TAs the school can afford (which is the case) do I just leave those other children to miss out? They are also entitled to an education. But there is one of me in a class and one teacher.

Dont misunderstand I work hard to support as many children as I can. In an ideal world every child with an ehcp gets their hours and one to one. Those who are behind and struggle have a class TA to help them. But that’s not happening anywhere in mainstream schools.

So yes, ehcps need looking at and changing because staffing isn’t an option.

For some children they are very much what is needed, it’s the only way they can access an education. It certainly isn’t right for everyone with an EHCP but to suggest they are never needed is wrong and will lead to children not being able to access education.

my son is going into year 10, he has had full time 1-1 since he was 6 and that has kept him in mainstream school and in a position where he is thriving. He will always need a high level of support in life but the 1-1 has given him the best chance of recieving the education he is entitled to. Hence why the local authority have agreed it’s needed.

If 1:1 is reasonably required, and it must be if it is detailed, specified and quantified in F, it is realistic and parents can successfully enforce their child’s EHCP, including via judicial review where necessary. EHCPs can be fully funded, but LAs won’t do this unless forced.

Also happens that not all funding per EHCPs is paid out.

Well hopefully ehcps have a complete overhaul when people realise they are no longer fit for purpose. 1:1s are no longer realistic in the primary classroom. Maybe if enough parents complain it will be looked into. Or a load of schools are going to be fined for not meeting impossible needs.

It's in a Federation with another rural primary. Our head is very good at getting funding for lots of things.

@APurpleSquirrel school will probably get scarcity funding then, so that will help boost the coffers. Is it a standalone school or part of a Trust?

EHCPs are a legal document. If F details, specifies and quantifies 1:1, it must be provided. It is not optional. Other pupils, funding and resources are irrelevant to the law. The school leaves themselves and the LA (ultimately it is the LA responsible for ensuring provision is delivered) open to legal action. Any parent whose DC is not receiving the SEP detailed, specified and quantified in F should pursue enforcement action.

Yes, teachers are full time, but I believe they do do their prep work (is it PPA?) during the school day, so I think they don't teacher one afternoon each week.
One class has under 20 pupils, the other is under 30 - less than 50 pupils in the school.