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AIBU?

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Original poster

To say vanity sizes should be rolled back?

506 replies

amoreoamicizia · 23/07/2024 13:37

I bought some vintage St. Michael shorts this weekend in a size 12 which fitted me perfectly. In current sizes I'm an 8 or sometimes- incredibly- a 6 (looking at you, Boden).

As flattering as it is to think of myself as a size 8, it's simply not the truth or a reflection of reality. A small size 12 does seem about right, as that was my size as a slim-ish teenager in the 90s.

Who is this vanity sizing really helping? Who does it serve? Isn't it about time clothing manufacturers were held to account and forced to roll back sizes to what they were in the early 00s, at least?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
fetchacloth · 24/07/2024 19:19

Misthios · 23/07/2024 13:48

Why does it matter? Why is your identity so enmeshed in being a 12 or a 8 or whatever? Wear clothes which fit you - end of story. Everyone has takes about how they are different sizes in different stores, even within the same store. If asked I’d say I was 12-14 top and 14 bottom but I have a Zara winter coat size XS which is perfect.

I feel the same, it's only a label after all.
If you're offended by the label, cut it off.🙂

fc123 · 24/07/2024 19:17

KirstenBlest · 24/07/2024 18:58

@fc123 , indeed. The general increase in girth is far more obvious.

People are also shocked that clothes tend not to be made in the UK. They would cost a lot more if they were because labour is cheaper in places like India and China.
We could buy less and buy better.

Oh gosh. A whole new thread here 🙂.
I traded through it all ( also had shops for 22 years) and remember the price deflation post the world trade agreement in 2005. It was always circumnavigated around prior but in 2004/5 floodgates opened.
I'll post later tonight as I remember er the change in customer behaviour and expectations happened over the following 2 years.
Then came the credit crunch

VickyPollard25 · 24/07/2024 19:15

You are not being unreasonable. I have to buy underwear and T-shirts from the M&S children’s range. I initially bought T-shirts for 15 year olds. Too big. I have to buy for a 13 year old. Adult small is massive. It’s beyond ridiculous!

queensonia · 24/07/2024 19:05

This is also contributing to clothing waste. Buying online, so much has be returned because you have no idea if you’re going to need a size 6 or a size 16

Original poster
amoreoamicizia · 24/07/2024 19:00

MrHarleyQuin · 24/07/2024 18:08

I think shoe sizes have changed slightly, or become less reliable as well, as it's unlikely my feet have shrunk. I was always 6.5 edging up to a 7, but more recently a 6 is fine and a 7 is cavernous.

My daughter hasn't much choice in a nine/ten though and has to buy men's trainers.

Edited

Ah- I know the answer to this! What happened with shoe sizes is that we used to follow British shoe sizes (4/5/6/7 etc.) and the manufacturer's model for the shoes was made according to this standard. Then when production shifted overseas EU sizing was followed and it doesn't align exactly with British sizing, and the second most common British size - a 6- was often aligned with EU 39 for convenience when in fact a British 6 is larger than a 39. A British 6 is actually more equivalent to 39.5, so people who thought they had size 6 feet may find 39s too small and sometimes when a 40 is labelled as a 6, it's too big.

OP posts:
KirstenBlest · 24/07/2024 18:58

@fc123 , indeed. The general increase in girth is far more obvious.

People are also shocked that clothes tend not to be made in the UK. They would cost a lot more if they were because labour is cheaper in places like India and China.
We could buy less and buy better.

fc123 · 24/07/2024 18:48

KirstenBlest · 24/07/2024 18:41

What I mean is that the average is creeping up very slowly, so saying that 'people are getting taller' is misleading.

People are now fatter.
Fact.
There are some posters on this thread that seem to take real offence by the fact that mass produced products don't fit them like they a custom made garment.
Ready made clothing has really only been around in volume ( and as the default) since the 1960's really.
Prior to that we made our own clothes , consumed far less over a lifetime ( my grandmothers wardrobe
still had her 'best dress' in it that she wore for 20 years for 'occasions'.
When we made our own clothes we 'made to measure' and tweaked the dress making pattern to suit our own build/shape.
To expect every brand or a gigantic retail company (like M&S) to create a clothing range that is able to fit every single body shape is unrealistic.

I haven't even talked about the 'techniques (AKA tricks) that we used when photographing products for online. Just to say I would create 2 samples. One for production and graded to my average height and size for sampling and the other just for photography on a model who was very tall, slim and leggy. This was so ms average customer (size 12 /5'5" ) could see how it would look on her ( do proportions would be the same on the model who would be size 8 and 5'10").

S0livagant · 24/07/2024 18:44

Sunsetcocktail · 23/07/2024 15:43

Telling grown women to buy clothes from the kids section is ridiculous. Have you looked at teen’s clothing recently? It is obviously not screaming professional attire. I get that it can be difficult to care about other women and their problems but this is just low.

They also would likely be too short for the waist size.

KirstenBlest · 24/07/2024 18:41

What I mean is that the average is creeping up very slowly, so saying that 'people are getting taller' is misleading.

fc123 · 24/07/2024 18:34

As I did size 8's.

fc123 · 24/07/2024 18:34

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 24/07/2024 14:49

There is such a stream of women on Mumsnet claiming to be a size 8. Odd, that.

So what?
Everyone is a different shape and size.
As m previous posts say, I was in the industry and our cutting docket ratios would reflect how many customers were which size ( and who would by my product).
I gave an example of a cutting docket ratio over sizes 8-14.
I manufactured 4 X as many 12's ( ms average /majority in my customer base who were aged 20-45) as I did s

MrHarleyQuin · 24/07/2024 18:27

Bra sizing is odder and less reliable than clothes sizes.

Deboragh · 24/07/2024 18:25

It's bloody infuriating, especially with bras. I've seen beanpoles with 2 fried eggs claiming to be 36DD! No way!

S0livagant · 24/07/2024 18:21

Misthios · 23/07/2024 13:48

Why does it matter? Why is your identity so enmeshed in being a 12 or a 8 or whatever? Wear clothes which fit you - end of story. Everyone has takes about how they are different sizes in different stores, even within the same store. If asked I’d say I was 12-14 top and 14 bottom but I have a Zara winter coat size XS which is perfect.

It's not about identity. It's about being able to find the right size (or at least a starting size then the size up or down is right as fits will be different). If it was in inches it would also be fine. Many brands don't even match the measurements on their own size charts these days.

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 24/07/2024 18:16

araiwa · 23/07/2024 13:45

Meaningless numbers should all be in the bin

Men's clothes don't have this bullshit

I agree with this.

Men doing see themselves as “being” a certain size

They’ll “take” a certain measurement on the neck or waist or inner leg but they would identify as a number.

So bad for self esteem all around.

KirstenBlest · 24/07/2024 18:15

@NonPlayerCharacter , no, it means that the average height is getting bigger.

Disturbia81 · 24/07/2024 18:13

KirstenBlest · 24/07/2024 17:39

@Disturbia81 , It doesn't literally mean anything.

You're not talking sense hence all these confused replies.

NonPlayerCharacter · 24/07/2024 18:11

KirstenBlest · 24/07/2024 16:58

People haven't got taller. It's the younger generations who are generally taller than the shorter of their two parents.
The average increases gradually over time.

Show quote history

The average increases gradually over time.

That means people are getting taller.

MrHarleyQuin · 24/07/2024 18:08

I think shoe sizes have changed slightly, or become less reliable as well, as it's unlikely my feet have shrunk. I was always 6.5 edging up to a 7, but more recently a 6 is fine and a 7 is cavernous.

My daughter hasn't much choice in a nine/ten though and has to buy men's trainers.

KirstenBlest · 24/07/2024 17:58

Ksqordssvimy · 24/07/2024 17:46

Yes. It's not happened overnight.

But girths have been increasing far more rapidly.

S0livagant · 24/07/2024 17:56

I'd like it fixed at clothes size equals waist size in inches minus 18. So 28" = size 10

DryIce · 24/07/2024 17:52

KirstenBlest · 24/07/2024 16:58

People haven't got taller. It's the younger generations who are generally taller than the shorter of their two parents.
The average increases gradually over time.

Show quote history

Aren't they? If the younger generations are getting taller, then aren't we as people getting taller?

I am 5'9 - a giant among my grandmothers contemporaries, noticeable among my mother's, on the tall side in mine but seemingly unremarkable amongst current teenagers

Ksqordssvimy · 24/07/2024 17:46

Yes. It's not happened overnight.

KirstenBlest · 24/07/2024 17:41

@Ksqordssvimy that's 11 cm in 150+ years.

Ksqordssvimy · 24/07/2024 17:39

KirstenBlest · 24/07/2024 16:58

People haven't got taller. It's the younger generations who are generally taller than the shorter of their two parents.
The average increases gradually over time.

Show quote history

Not individually, but collectively society is consistently getting taller. So it makes sense they'll be bigger all over iyswim. This, from a decade ago, is interesting https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-23896855 - so is 'vanity sizing' just taking into account all over changing body shapes, rather than a marketing ploy?

Men's average height 'up 11cm since 1870s'

The average height of European men has risen by almost 11cm since the mid-19th century, experts have found.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-23896855