To say vanity sizes should be rolled back?

If there are any shoe manufacturers about, I'd love to hear their view as shoes are now my nemesis.
I'm a size 41 or 9.5 US size but skinny long b

It bothers me that mens jeans etc are in inches. That would make more sense.

Also, if you want vanity sizing, I have found that F&F at Tesco, New Look, ASDA living and Matalan you need to go down a size as they measure big.

Ugh posted too soon sorry.
We now live in a global world and manufacturing has shifted to other parts over the past 3 decades.
A brand can retail their product globally if they choose too.

But different races have different body shapes/ proportions just because humans are all different all over the world.

Each country will have set size grade for the majority of people who purchase from them.

In Asia, humans are just more petite all over ( not all of course but you get my jist) so their pattern blocks will be smaller.

I remember buying in Italian brands in the early noughties for my shops and the sizes were definitely a size down to those my UK customer were used to. So we advised accordingly on the swing ticket .
Size 38. = 10 for example.

Standardised sizing has been a hot topic in all 4 decades I've done this but will never happen.

Ultimately, a brand will create their products to fit their target demographic and will size it how they choose to.

I do recall Biden at the start and how their clothes were but generously but I always thought it was due to them wanting to creat that Italian, body skimming look whereby a pair of crepe trousers ( lined too!) would hang on the body rather than be snug. A sort of 'designer feel' rather than any other reason.

You are not obliged to read any thread.

If you consider a thread to be 'absolutely tedious and pathetic', feel free to click on to something that does interest you and let the people who are interested in discussing the thread subject crack on.

Drives me nuts. I’ve dropped a ton of weight (not sick) and went from a size 26 to a 14, so I bought size 14 trousers from PLT, they’re ridiculous. I’m already out of the jeans I bought from them. At least I know to buy size 12, very flattering, but completely unreal.

It would be useful if we went to inches/centimetres across the board as opposed to size 14 etc. I’ve got clothes, probably American imports, that say 16, so a 20? But another item says 10, so you’d think a 14, but they literally fall down on me. I either need to try on everything and send it back or buy from known brands that don’t use vanity sizing. Haven’t been into big shops eg M&S/Next because I’m still losing and don’t want to spend £40 on jeans that will only last a few months.

I didn't vote but I think as others have said we should have more constant sizing as it really varies a lot from brand to brand. I never know if I should order the 10 or the 12. I care about constant sizing as opposed to vintage sizing.

Exactly that (!).
It's actually a really interesting thread.
I hope I explained the 'Why' sufficiently but the psychology aspect seems to be the bit that everyone's going crazy over.

As to standardised sizes/ measurements, I do have an answer to that too. I think (!).

We now l

Yes, that's the point. The size name changed, just like a 12 now was a 14 ten years ago or whatever, to reflect the people wearing the line.

No. The sizing remained the same.
Only the labels changed.
The dancers wouldn't buy a L - they would buy a L renamed as M.

The rest of your post I agree with.

Same overall result. The sizing changes to accommodate the customer. In this case, reflecting the fact that the customer is smaller sized.

In most demographics, people are getting bigger so the sizing recalibrates to reflect that. Different lines have different customer profiles. Result: inconsistent sizing between makers, but once you find the store that caters for you, things should be easier. And once you realise size literally is just a number, you can stop being ruled by it and realise it's not the way to calculate your actual dimensions or BMI.

Gosh, aren't YOU the most dainty, teeny-tiny person out there! 👏

So much more virtuous and just better than those mahoosive people who wear a size 10 or 12, and as for the size 14 or 16 M&S people, well, they just shouldn't leave the house, should they?

If you don't like M&S's sizing policy then don't shop there. It's not compulsory. But you're doing yourself no favours by making out their size 8 trousers are so ludicrously mahoosive that they are of joke proportions.

No. The L was renamed M. M became S etc.
She didn't get rid of L.

People didn't buy L. But they would buy a M with the L measurements.

It did. She noted how she sized down for a clothing line aimed at people who tend to be slimmer (young women, dancers). Because the customers were slim and the larger size wasn't selling, she recalibrated accordingly, got rid of the L, made the old M the new L and introduced a new size at the smallest end. Hence, a line for a slim demographic that comes up smaller than average because the customers are smaller than average.

Other lines do the same. Lines aimed at middle aged women will come up bigger than ones aimed at teenagers because teenagers tend to be slimmer and the sizing recalibrates accordingly.

That's why standardised sizing isn't the blessing we might think. It prevents makers from sizing to their customer.

And it's one reason why sizing is in the shitter. Shitty fast fashion is being pumped out everywhere, every day, to everyone, and that's creating a benchmark based on nobody as makers stop knowing who their customer is.

Unless every single item of clothing in M&S is designed to be baggy and loose fitting, this argument doesn't work.

If I wore a pair of size 8 trousers from there, I'd need braces to hold them up. Unless I'm buying clown trousers, it's not the look I'm going for.

I do think people are kidding themselves about how big they are.

That’s bollocks. Fat people know they are fat. And even if there was a tiny chance they didn’t, there’s plenty of people on Mumsnet to tell them they are.

Yay, another fat bashing thread!

I think this is what a lot of people are missing.

Some very loose fitting items might fit if you buy 3 sizes smaller than what you'd usually wear. But are designed to worn "too big". I have a jumper from Zara which is a size smaller than I'd usually wear and is still massive, because that's the style.

Come off it. Look at one that is supposed to be fitted. Look at the waist of the shirt on its own and on the model. They've pinned that shirt to buggery for the photoshoot so it will fit her.

It would absolutely drown me. I'd have wads of material stuffed down my pants to try and make it look like it fit. As if it's supposed to be for someone with a 25 and a half inch waist!! Ridiculous - it's just not a size 8.

https://www.marksandspencer.com/cotton-collared-long-sleeve-shirt/p/clp60510080?intid=mobile_app_pdp_share

If I got down to BMI 24 I'd be a size 10 in measurements, yes. Currently a size 12 at BMI 27. I have legs like a scrum half, and am a muscular hourglass. Not wide, but dense! 😂

It's not meant to be tight. The way it fits on the model is how it is meant to fit.

Of course I’m not saying everyone is in denial about their size, I’m just making the point that it’s possible for your weight to creep up and not know it because unless you weigh yourself - I don’t - you wouldn’t know from clothing sizes. You might notice your old clothes not fitting I suppose.

fc123’s perspective was really interesting and informative about how sizing is determined but it doesn’t address the variation between different manufacturers.

I have clothes from size 8-20 that all fit well.

I'm with you all with wanting consistent sizing.

This thread is fascinating. I'm 5ft 3, 9st 8 and a size 12. Crazy to hear the other weights/heights that are also a size 12. How does that even work?!

I'm actually impressed that with all these different bodies being a size 12, I can walk into most shops and buy that size. Sometimes I get a size 8/10 but that's purely because I want the top but don't want it oversized as it was intended to be.

I mean, there's no objective size 12, is there? I couldn't care less whether a size bigger than it once was, I just wish sizes were the same across different shops.

Add in the current oversized trend and you have no hope!

I have a size 6 jacket that Im swimming in....god knows what it would look like on someone actually a size 6 (just a giant walking jacket I imagine).

Very large? You don't understand what large means, do you?

(I'm not speaking about my size but generally).