To wonder if a lot of the Just Stop Oil protesters are not very nice people on a personal level

How many people in ambulances have the Tories killed by cutting health services, and were their intentions good? This thread is just another case of little people hating on the little people. I'm not going to engage further on this thread because it won't go anywhere positive.

Stop Godwin-ing everything.

All you are doing is countering everything with 'but other people do worse things'.

That doesn't contradict my statement.

I also wasn't talking about "deliberate harm". Most people who are uncomfortable to be around, for whatever reason, are not doing it deliberately

I meant the company executives and politicians you referred to.

Where did I say they shouldn't? They should be treated under law the same way as other protesters not as a special case.

People are responsible for their own actions. It's as simple as that.

Protest groups decide for themselves what lines they will and will not cross.

To me, the gulf between non-violent action (which can be disruptive) and violence; deliberately harming other people, is vast.

We need to hold other people accountable too. That’s not an argument for continuing to allow JSO to get away with criminal activities at the expense of the law abiding public.

It certainly takes a level of narcissism to put yourself in a moral pedestal so high that you think your own ethical concerns (carbon emissions) trump all others. Two women died on the Dartford bridge directly because of JSO activities. Who knows how many other ambulance delays have resulted in death or worse health outcomes because of them. They have also caused permanent damage to our cultural heritage.

My view is that, if they are serious and want to make a public statement then there are positive ways of getting media attention. They could pick littler on the beach and turn it into public sculptures, for example. But they like causing destruction and harm.

Probably not, but I can only find evidence of one proven critical delay of an ambulance by JSO, beyond hearsay.

It's called perspective. Oil & gas companies get fines for their crimes, not jail. Politicians get a seat in the Lords. I don't think JSO protesters deserve to be treated more harshly in the UK and neither does the UN.

Do you really think that over 4 days and 51000 hours of delays there was only one ambulance delayed? One ambulance in 4 days used the m25? Really?

And to compound that, you think that an acceptable response to this is to say ‘yes but all the other ambulances are delayed anyway and it’s not their fault’.

Your cognitive dissonance is practically clinical in its absurdity.

🤦‍♀️

if Social Media had been around in 1910 I can imagine the slating the suffrage movement would have had

did any of you not vote last election as you don’t believe in protests of any type?

The suffragettes aldo had one main goal that was easily achievable and could have been achieved by those in authority ( thete is also an argument that it was the far more peaceful suffragists who achieved votes for women and would have done far earlier had it not been for the more highly publicised suffragette movement).JSO haven't made their demands clear by their antics. Just stop oil? How? What replaces it? What are the consequences of immediately stopping oil production? Do they know? Do they care? Saying ' oh we're terrified about the planet being destroyed so we are going to jump on a train' achieves nothing to publicise what they want to happen. Their moral panic also makes people think they are lying. People have been saying the planet will be dead in 10 years for 30 years. Hyperbole does nothing. In the meantime lots of people are actually doing productive things to mitigate the effects of climate change, quietly and effectively while these attention seekers throw soup at paintings and glue themselves to roads and cry about missing out on their degrees in music.

This is such a clear example of the appalling thinking patterns of JSO and its fans. Just staggering.

The bottom line is, you have no moral right to put non-consenting people at risk of harm for your principles. Put yourself at harm, for your direct action, like I used to, but not others.

Your ' Oh look a squirrel' diversion tactics are not defences of your chosen actions. In fact, they are a tacit admission that you can't defend them.

It’s not a perspective, it’s whataboutery and excuses.

So for all the supporters and ‘we are on fire’ activists, would you sacrifice your own life? I mean this cause is bigger than anyone else’s, why don’t you start with your own?

Poor Cresidaaah who will miss her brothers wedding! 🙄 the irony 🤦🏻‍♀️

I never said that, I'm just putting it into perspective.

I agree. There will likely be more arseholes per hundred than the average population but really, what is the alternative?

Literally nothing else has worked. Every moderate approach has been batted off or co-opted. We are on fire.

It is. But one is the direct result of political decisions made by politicians (big oil donates to the Tory party & 43 peers have investments in fossil fuel) who want to undermine the NHS, the other believe they're fighting for the health of the planet.

It's possible to work out how many excess deaths have been caused by each group and conclude that the ones in prison aren't as responsible the other group in parliament.

Rapists and child abusers who are convicted for the third time don't get shorter sentences.

So because there are chronic issues in our health system, JSO are justified in taking action that makes it worse? That is a monumentally stupid position.

All this deflection does is reveal you know JSO's actions are indefensible, so you need to try to divert the argument elsewhere.

My father was like this. Charismatic, activist, popular, well liked, respected member of the community but an absolutely shit husband and father. Horrible man. He had a strong sense of justice and doing what is right. That, somehow, didn't show in the way he treated his family. Of course they are not all like this. I am not from the UK.

So the answer to that is block ambulances anyway? As the government is not dealing with ambulance times effectively what does it matter that JSO block them?! Yes, behave.

You behave. What's the biggest cause of ambulance delays over any given day?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-63743383

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/just-stop-oil-dartford-ambulance-not-delayed-m20-accident/

Oh behave, there's multiple footage of the holdups they've caused to lots of emergency vehicles. Just one...