To not get DC a snack

You just have to say no be firmer they are not going to get better they are pushing boundaries and you haven't found your line yet so they are just going to have to find your line.

Mine are similar ages. I would eat at 6 and put the youngest to bed at 7. Then eldest at 8. Stops them encouraging each other and at least in our house it’s quicker to do them separately, plus the eldest needs less sleep. Then they get plain water in a no spill bottle in their rooms and if they need the loo they take themselves. Food would be a flat out no.

Just stop this nonsense they are playing you. Bedtime. Goodnight then ignore !

Why are you there saying “sleepy time” for an hour and a half though like they’re 1 years old? Stories, cuddles, tucked in, night night, close the door!

They are having you on OP.

If I were in your shoes I would sit them both down together and tell them you have had enough. Establish a new routine together, so they feel like they have had an input, then stick to it religiously. At that age, our routine was

5- 5.30 dinner then device free play.
6.30 cup of milk and biscuit
6.45 bath
7.15 teeth, face and in to bed for story
7.30 lights out.

You are going to have to be firm though and there should be consequences for messing around. Ask them once, tell them once, then immediate consequence if behaviour continues.
Go back to star charts and rewards at the end of the week if necessary.

My two youngest are that age, if I didn’t be the adult and monitor/act accordingly of course they’d take the mick! If they knew they could eat more, they’d ask for more - they are not yet mature enough to understand sleep hygiene/healthy eating habits/calorie intake/vitamins in a varied diet/etc - it is my job to deal with all of that. And yours.
Often, thirst manifests as hunger - make sure they drink more earlier in the day.
Make bedtime dull and don’t set negotiations as the norm!
We have:
Dinner 5.30
Bath 6 (last drink too generally)
Music and books downstairs then teeth and wee 6.30-7.00
Book in bed 7-7.15 (7 year old can be 7.30)

They do not get food after dinner time. Or extra drinks as standard. It’s bed, kiss, lights out. And I never have an issue with them mucking about because they know the routine. In the morning, they know if they wake before 7 they just read/cuddle teddies in bed quietly.

Having the children dictate is rarely a good routine to get in to.

I would move dinner earlier, then add in a glass of milk and crumpet or toast after bath and before bed. That way you know they are not hungry and are just playing up.

I also wouldn’t be in the room with them. 4 year old is put to bed first, you can read to them whilst 7 year old is in the bath with the door open, then 7 year old comes down for their supper and book whilst 4 year old goes to sleep.

7 year old goes up half an hour later.

They will mess at first especially the 4 year old but when they are used to the routine should be asleep before 7 year old gets there.

I think you need to do some grey rocking as they are clearly playing you. I also agree with PP that the 7 year old needs some help to manage the anxiety as that's not normal at that age.

No way they're trying it on! At that age mine had dinner more like 5.30-6pm and a small snack and drink of milk before bed about 7.30pm but there's no way yours are hungry.
Mine tried every trick in the book to not settle down and sleep and the only one they knew I wouldn't say no to is needing the toilet! So they strangely always needed to get back up to use the toilet
It is normal for kids to not want to go to bed but it sounds like you need to be a bit stricter with them (and I'm saying that as a fairly soft parent)!

Why don’t you have dinner earlier for the kids and supper? That way they can have a slice of toast / bowl of cereal before bed and a drink. I wouldn’t let them get up for food or drink after that as it is just pissing about and at their ages they know how to get round mum. Crying hysterically as they are hungry sounds dramatic. I’d dial things right back, tell them tonight they are not getting out of bed once in (obviously if really need the toilet I’d let them go once but anymore they are just making excuses).

If the 7 year old has a separate room why not introduce a monitor with a talk function. That way you can reassure from a distance that you can hear him if there’s an emergency but you’re not up and down and going in and you can simply respond on the monitor “I’ve heard you, you’re ok, go to sleep”.

The four year old you absolutely need to be much firmer with. You can be calm and caring still without going in so much and definitely they don’t need you there as they drift off. Go in, sing a song/ tell a story etc, give a cuddle and then leave. When my (now 5DS) was around 3 I would say I’ll come back to check on him in 10 minutes. 9/10 times I could see o on monitor that he’d already drifted off before I needed to go back in. Sometimes it’s just the reassurance you’re near that comforts them to sleep. But I think once you’ve started creeping out their rooms as they sleep it’s a difficult habit to break and there will be tears.

If this this severe to be impacting sleep so much then hopefully there is a service via the GP or even school counselling to support him and you but the current system in place is too disruptive to everyone’s sleep/ your chill out time.

This.

7yo can see you from the landing. Sit there and don't engage.

What's the ongoing anxiety treatment?

They aren’t hungry or thirsty, they just don’t want to go to bed.

And they’ve got you right where they want you!

I once read a joke that said " no one is as dehydrated as a toddler whose just been told to sleep". And ain't that the truth .
Anyway, they're pushing the boundaries and sorry to say, you're falling for it.
I have a 2 and 4 year old.
After we've brushed teeth, no one gets anything to eat. I've explained to them how bad it is for their teeth, so sorry, I'm responsible for your teeth. You can get something first thing in the morning. And repeat. They only asked the first few nights.
It happens whenever you start allowing something, they want gazillion other things
We have a cup of water for each on their bedside table, which they're welcome to drink from.
We've recently port trained our 2 year old and then when our 3rd baby and she had a few accidents probably due to the change. And dang the kids are so smart.. so she knew were hyper vigilant so she doesn't pee her pants, so if she so much as whispers 'wee' we pop her on the potty .
And it took her about a week to realise this is my ticket our of bed. She'd say I need to wee and on the potty she goes and then shes 'not done ' for ages.
Just back in bed after 10 minutes on the potty. 'i need to go nr. 2'
Same story. (Nothing in the potty btw)
Took me about 3 days before I realized I'm being taken for a fool here. Now we gently remind her. You can go in the morning darling. Obv I do watch for signs and know her routine. Eg if I know she didn't wee after bath I might take her, but otherwise nope.
Again it only took about 3 night and she stopped because she know she's not getting anyway with it.
And believe me I also struggle with thinking 'awh but what if they're really hungry'. But I remind myself that they won't starve and sleeping is really important for their health so I need to prioritise that. And they're overall more happy if they have a boundary. No food after teetg brushing. Yes to water, but no to food. They're more secure if they know what they can expect and what not.

I think I would work hard at not engaging at all. I would explain that you will stay in the room but you will not be talking with them as it is bedtime and then no responding no shushing, just sit quietly. I would only react if they turn the light on and just turn it off. But no food. They can't be starving at that point.

I wouldn't sleep either if someone was hovering in my room telling me to lie still every 5 min

Absolutely not. You need to get firm it cannot take that long.

whats happening about the 7yo’s anxiety? Who is he seeing professionally and what do they say about the best way to manage him?

Omg no wonder they aren't going to sleep if you are in there shhing etc. Do they share a room? If they do id want to try and find a way to put them in separate rooms and you need to not be in there - knowing you are there /your presence will absolutely be keeping them awake. They aren't babies.
And they absolutely do not need food they already had a late tea at 7pm!! Are they poor eaters that you honestly think a child that finished eating 7.30 is hungry again 45 min later, you need to just say no you just had dinner you're not hungry stop mucking about!

I have this problem too OP - and a husband that's soft as marshmallow who gets quite angry at me and says 'you eat when you're hungry let them'. 😤

If one of mine didn't have severe food aversion to most things I would insist the only bedtime snack was a banana as at least they help you sleep.

I wouldn’t have offered even bread.

Honestly allowing them out of bed that many times is fuelling this. 2 hours every night isn’t normal for bedtime.

I assumed they were toddlers but then fact that they are old enough to not need taking for a wee makes it even more ridiculous that you’re up there with them dragging this out for 2 hours. You need to get strict!