Page 4 | To not get DC a snack

Namechanges85437854 · 2024-07-22T06:02:47+00:00

Never thought I'd even consider restricting access to food/drink/toilet, it sounds barbaric, but bedtime has got so far out of hand, we can't even see the hand anymore. 7.30 - finish tea & had plenty to drink. 7.45 - does anyone want anything else before bed? 7.55 teeth, drink of water, pj's & wee 8.00 into bed & listen to audio book 8.30 book off & lie down for sleep Then I need the toilet I'm so thirsty, I need a drink I've finished my drink, I need to go get more I need the toilet again I'm too hot, I need a thiner blanket I want to take of my pj's off I need the toilet again I'm hungry Last night at 9.45, after 6 toilet trips, countless drinks, 2 drink refills, 3 different blankets & 2 "falls" out of bed, I lost it and said no one was getting out of bed for any reason before morning. 5 minutes later they're both crying hysterically because their starving!!! And why won't I let them eat!! I did relent and give them a slice of bread each (the most boring snack I could think off), but struggling to find the line between what is me being awful and what is them taking the piss. I'm pretty sure 90% is them taking the piss, but how do you account for the 10% when they might actually need something?

MultiplaLight · 22/07/2024 19:07

Perhaps you need to say no more at bed time then and stop pandering to their every whim.

The natural consequence is mummy gets bloody pissed off and stops replying after 2 interruptions. Pick up and back to bed now, on repeat.

Bollindger · 22/07/2024 19:06

Do something not fun, so it stops them wanting to be awake.
Spellings, times table, reading, word cards....
Hand one drink tell them that is it.
They need the loo. Go up do not talk, or as little as possible
Sorry I am too tired to talk.
Quick quick, back to bed...
Also try a ticking alarm click.

Original poster

Namechanges85437854 · 22/07/2024 18:55

MultiplaLight · 22/07/2024 18:01

You come down like a absolute tonne of bricks on her. You say that the passed are toilet passes if you needed to, none of the other things they're doing are actual needs.

The more you write, the more it sounds like you're quite a permissive parent. I don't know if you actually are though. What consequences do they have for poor behaviour at other times?

Some people probably think I am, most consequences are exaggerated natural (like, if you can’t follow instructions, I can't keep you safe when we're out, so we'll need to go home or if you can be sensible in your car seats, I can't drive us to soft play). If they can't see the logical link, they just see it as random meaness and then feel too betrayed/ angry to be able to process the learning. The only thing I tend to do more external consequence for is violence, that gets zero tolerance in out house, and will usually result in any upcoming treats or outings being cancelled, or if we don't have anything planned a toy confiscated.

The majority of behaviour management is reward or praise driven. Might be frowned on, but it works better for us.

The problem with bedtime is that I'm not going to keep them awake by giving said reward, and something next day or later is to abstract to keep them focused. Consequences are also tricky, as natural consequences like being too tired the next day are also to detached but unrelated consequences I can give immediately are most likely to result in meltdowns, as they don't see the logical link. I will ride out the meltdown if I feel its important, like if I've cancelled a trip for hitting, but hours of screaming at bedtime, isn't good for anyone's sleep, including our neighbours. So I am probably more wet lettuce-is at bedtime then the rest of the time.

OP posts:

Original poster

Namechanges85437854 · 22/07/2024 18:06

SeaToSki · 22/07/2024 17:28

I would move to 2 separate bedtime routines with dc in their own bedrooms

Ask 7 yr old to help you with 4 yr old as he is the biggest. So dinner bath and jammies all together starting from 5/5.30pm. 4 yr old in bed at 6.30 and 7 yr old reads him a bedtime story while you listen. Then good night to 4 yr old and you and 7 yr old leave the room and both go downstairs

7 yr old gets half an hour of audio book while you ignore 4 yr old and return him to bed if necessary. 7 yr old can put audio book on noise cancelling headphones so is not interrupted by 4 yr old antics and can sit on the stairs so is not alone and also not close enough to be targeted by 4 yr old.

Then you go and sit with 7 yr old while he falls asleep in his bedroom..and ignore 4 yr old asking for anything. If 4 yr old leaves his bedroom then read the riot act and hold bedroom door shut. Hopefully 7 yr old will be ok while you do this, maybe you can video chat him from the hallway if he needs to see you as well as hear you, or sing a lullaby etc.

The key thing is to break the 4 yr olds habit of bouncing out of bed and manipulating you first as that then gives you the bandwidth to deal with the 7 yr old.

Then in the morning lots of positive feedback for any improvements

I think two bedrooms might be what we need to work towards. When the 7yo has been less anxious, he's managed to stay in bed with an audio book, while I put the younger one down (with both doors open). But even then could only really go 30 minutes, and the 4yo soon realised that she just needed to hold out that long, then I either need to interrupt her bedtime or leave him to he get upset.

One bit of progress we have had recently is DS will sometimes go into other rooms if we video call. Potentially that might help him keep kalm during DD's bedtime, but not sure if having screens at bedtime would do more harm then good, so haven't tried it.

OP posts:

MultiplaLight · 22/07/2024 18:01

You come down like a absolute tonne of bricks on her. You say that the passed are toilet passes if you needed to, none of the other things they're doing are actual needs.

The more you write, the more it sounds like you're quite a permissive parent. I don't know if you actually are though. What consequences do they have for poor behaviour at other times?

Original poster

Namechanges85437854 · 22/07/2024 17:50

MultiplaLight · 22/07/2024 17:43

It seems you've discerened that the problem is the get ups (for whatever excuse) so cut them out and they'll sleep better.

Why not try the 2 cards and once they're used, they're used approach?

I've thought about that, but what if get up number 3 (or whatever is passed the allowed amount) is the toilet. I wouldn't put it past the 4yo to intentionally pee the bed if I don't let her go (she has form), and changing all the bedding is an even longer delay.

OP posts:

YouJustDoYou · 22/07/2024 17:48

Yeah, mine used to try that, I'm on my own with them a lot as dh works away so I'm often tired and spent after a long day and I'll be fucked if I'm putting up with fuckwittery at bedtime, they tried it for a few nights and then I snapped, told them they are fine/fed/watered etc, and if they got out of bed again there would be consequences (was too tired at the time to think up said consequences), and told them they WILL stay in bed, or else. They stayed in bed.

Original poster

Namechanges85437854 · 22/07/2024 17:46

Thisismetooaswell · 22/07/2024 17:01

At 5 and 7 I would have been doing dinner at 5.30 and in bed about 7 to be asleep by 7.30. Your routine sounds very late to me

It probably is, we used to do youngest at 7 and older one at 8, but didn't seem fair to move oldest bedtime earlier when he was already having a tough time.

OP posts:

MultiplaLight · 22/07/2024 17:43

It seems you've discerened that the problem is the get ups (for whatever excuse) so cut them out and they'll sleep better.

Why not try the 2 cards and once they're used, they're used approach?

Original poster

Namechanges85437854 · 22/07/2024 17:36

Merryoldgoat · 22/07/2024 17:15

Fine @Namechanges85437854

I won’t post anymore.

I totally appreciate you were trying to help 😀

OP posts:

SeaToSki · 22/07/2024 17:28

I would move to 2 separate bedtime routines with dc in their own bedrooms

Ask 7 yr old to help you with 4 yr old as he is the biggest. So dinner bath and jammies all together starting from 5/5.30pm. 4 yr old in bed at 6.30 and 7 yr old reads him a bedtime story while you listen. Then good night to 4 yr old and you and 7 yr old leave the room and both go downstairs

7 yr old gets half an hour of audio book while you ignore 4 yr old and return him to bed if necessary. 7 yr old can put audio book on noise cancelling headphones so is not interrupted by 4 yr old antics and can sit on the stairs so is not alone and also not close enough to be targeted by 4 yr old.

Then you go and sit with 7 yr old while he falls asleep in his bedroom..and ignore 4 yr old asking for anything. If 4 yr old leaves his bedroom then read the riot act and hold bedroom door shut. Hopefully 7 yr old will be ok while you do this, maybe you can video chat him from the hallway if he needs to see you as well as hear you, or sing a lullaby etc.

The key thing is to break the 4 yr olds habit of bouncing out of bed and manipulating you first as that then gives you the bandwidth to deal with the 7 yr old.

Then in the morning lots of positive feedback for any improvements

Merryoldgoat · 22/07/2024 17:15

Fine @Namechanges85437854

I won’t post anymore.

Original poster

Namechanges85437854 · 22/07/2024 17:10

My question is, is it unreasonable to not give them a snack, when I know they are fed and just using it as a delay tactic. Their autism doesn't effect that question (yes some will have hunger related sensory issues or not understand the caurse and effect of eat now or you will be hungry later. That is not the case here)

I'm not asking if I should be staying with them, and have explained several times why I don't intend to stop. I'm also perfectly capable of ignoring any advice that doesn't work with there needs. I find it useful to listen to a wide range of experience, including from parents of NT children and find that when I start threads with the fact they're autistic, no one can get past either a stereotype view of autism or the idea that my autistic children must be just like theirs, when as we all know, if you've met one autistic person, you've met one autistic person.

When they actually lie down and try to sleep, they are asleep within 20 minutes, so if I could stop the extra get ups, that would get bedtime down to an hour, which would be better for all of us. Including my overtired 4yo and my 7yo who is gets upset about being kept awake when he wants to sleep.

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Thisismetooaswell · 22/07/2024 17:01

At 5 and 7 I would have been doing dinner at 5.30 and in bed about 7 to be asleep by 7.30. Your routine sounds very late to me

cavernclub · 22/07/2024 16:59

No way. Bedtime is bedtime. I never gave my kids drinks, snacks or anything after that time. It was bedtime story, lights out and they were to stay in bed and sleep after that. I would sit outside the door and read for a bit if they wanted a bit of security knowing I was there. It was a while ago, but my two are now really good at getting to sleep (as teenagers). I was pretty strict on bedtime routine at primary though

Merryoldgoat · 22/07/2024 16:56

WhatNoRaisins · 22/07/2024 16:52

I don't think you can leave the autism out of this OP, you're just going to get people telling you to take a hard line on this behaviour and that leaving them to cry won't do any harm at this age. That might not be the right approach here and I wonder if the OT might have more insight here than us lot.

Edited

Absolutely.

Both my children have eating issues. They will either vomit at the table if ‘forced’ or they will just not eat if there are no safe foods, even if very hungry. The same strategies don’t work on ND children as NT even if the behaviour appears the same.

WhatNoRaisins · 22/07/2024 16:52

I don't think you can leave the autism out of this OP, you're just going to get people telling you to take a hard line on this behaviour and that leaving them to cry won't do any harm at this age. That might not be the right approach here and I wonder if the OT might have more insight here than us lot.

Mynewnameis · 22/07/2024 16:48

If the 7yo is autistic it could be affecting his sleep. I'd ask on a mire specific special needs forum.
If it was me I'd also have them in separate rooms.

Merryoldgoat · 22/07/2024 16:42

@Namechanges85437854

i didn’t say you were - but people are suggesting those as solutions which won’t work for your children.

If you don’t want to hear the truth - that your children’s behaviour is related to their autism - you’ll get nowhere.

You can make changes but you need a proper strategy that will work with their needs.

It’s not enough to say ‘this isn’t autism, it’s kid stuff because for your children they’re the same thing and are inextricably linked.

Original poster

Namechanges85437854 · 22/07/2024 16:23

Merryoldgoat · 22/07/2024 15:51

Quite.

@Namechanges85437854

You are honestly doing yourself no favours ignoring the autism here and not mentioning it in your OP.

The ‘just ignore and shut the door’ will not work and your children will be severely affected. The kinder you are and the more autism-aware in your methods the better. Both of my boys now go to sleep without any issue. Not easy, it was a long road, but leaving them crying would have been very damaging.

Show quote history

What part of sitting in a room for 2 hours cuddling them is "just ignore and shut the door" or makes you think I'm leaving them to cry? They get lots of adjustments for the thing that are down to autism (like staying until their asleep to help DS stay calm). But autism dose not make them need to pee 6 times in an hour or need to eat an hour after tea. Those particular things are just them being kids and messing on.

OP posts:

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 22/07/2024 16:15

Definitely no food after bed. The hysterical sobbing is intended to get you to change your mind.

SlidingDoors1 · 22/07/2024 15:53

I think you are gettng mugged off.
Water only to drink
No food once in bedroom - just ban food

Merryoldgoat · 22/07/2024 15:51

berksandbeyond · 22/07/2024 15:39

I mean, they’re autistic and by the sounds of it have just gone through their parents separation… so I don’t think any of their behaviour is too surprising at the moment really!

Quite.

@Namechanges85437854

You are honestly doing yourself no favours ignoring the autism here and not mentioning it in your OP.

The ‘just ignore and shut the door’ will not work and your children will be severely affected. The kinder you are and the more autism-aware in your methods the better. Both of my boys now go to sleep without any issue. Not easy, it was a long road, but leaving them crying would have been very damaging.

berksandbeyond · 22/07/2024 15:39

I mean, they’re autistic and by the sounds of it have just gone through their parents separation… so I don’t think any of their behaviour is too surprising at the moment really!

17caterpillars1mouse · 22/07/2024 15:26

Just say no. Every single time. They are not hungry after eating dinner. They won't starve. Just consistently say no. They will stop asking