To not get DC a snack

Single mum of 2 DC both with ASD, sending you a HUGE handhold! Haven't read the full thread but my tuppence worth in the hope it helps, use screens at bedtime for the older DC, once you have this shit with the younger one nipped in the bud you can fade out the screen if you feel it necessary but for now, fuck it make it as easy as possible for yourself my love.

I use melatonin for both mine, the youngest 4.5yr just cannot switch his brain off to sleep without it and can get so beyond himself with exhaustion bless him. My 9yr old only uses it a few times a week now as she can get over to sleep listening to an audio book more and more nights as she gets older. They have zero side effects and the benefits are HUGE and cannot be understated! The paediatrician may be reluctant to give it to you over costs so request adaflex which is a tablet form and mix it with water/juice if they can't swallow tablets, you don't have to give it every night but whilst you are getting this nipped in the bud I'd strongly recommend you try it.

As for your actual question, no you aren't starving them, you know they are trying it on. Give them a slice of apple/1 custard cream/anything small right before they brush their teeth and ensure they know that's it don't bother asking. You know they've been fed so ignore that voice screaming in your head and tell it to fuck off, you are clearly a great mum who understands your children's needs extremely well and it's fucking exhausting doing it all on your own with no support, you won't rear two future criminals if you make life a bit easier for yourself now. I understand the need for them to have a set routine but clearly your routine has changed once with 'D'H no longer around at bedtime (ever?) so you can change it again once they are a bit older and realise they can't take the piss at bedtime

Hang in there sweet it WILL get easier x

They are taking the piss

No need for tea then a snack /supper later

One drink. Water

If they need a wee they go once

Be strict. Firm and consistent

My son just never needed much sleep at all. When he got to be 6/7 ish I was so exhausted with all the up and downing every night that we came to an agreement that once he was up in his room he could do what he wanted - read/lego/colour/sleep - but once he was in his room it was mummy’s time to be downstairs doing her things. I was studying at the time and had older twins so it worked well for us and he was very happy.

It's seems that you are struggling with meeting the needs of 2 children with differing ages and I'm sorry but it all sounds horribly stressful and chaotic.
Children thrive on routine and clubs until 7pm for a 4 year old is far too late.
Prioritise a good bed time routine with 4 year old going up 7pm, tucked up in bed by 7.30pm stories done .
Then your DS 7.30 until 8pm
Clubs are massively overrated IMHO until they are older, just drop them
Far better to prioritise yours and your childrens sleep and well being/ MH than how many clubs they can do in a week.

My dc are under 9 so dinner is early about 5ish,
at 6.30 if they are not full up they can have fruit, toast or a sandwich only.
Bedtime drink at 7pm.
Bedroom by 8 and lights off 9 latest

Also the other thing I do is take things away from them if they carry on playing up and won’t settle at bedtime. Usually their tablets. This usually works 😂

They are playing you! Do not fall for it. Kids will try anything to stay up. I most definitely would not be tolerating food at that time of night. Realistically even if they were genuinely hungry it’s not going to harm them going until the morning and they wouldn’t do it again. I keep a drink at the side of the bed, toilet before bed. Mine are almost 5 and 6.

I think they are getting bored with the audiobooks rather than sleepy so are getting hungry/thirsty/wee signals. I think it's important to visually see words at that age to encourage reading. They will be reading a book to you before their bedtime soon enough!

Hiya, so sorry to hear of your difficulties.

The solution is to try to tire them out by their days activities.

Good luck.

I think all kids try this trick, I know mine did at the age and we had to implement a firm routine and we as parents had to stand firm as they weren’t hungry or thirsty, they want to be up dicking about.
Now 13 and 9, both boys with hollow legs, they have tea at 5pm. After tea they have a bath/shower and chill out. They get supper at 8pm which is crumpets or cereal with fruit or yoghurt and a drink. You need to set the expectation that there will be no more food and drink after that time and it is time for bed/kitchen is closed. Our 13 year old still tries his luck so we increased his dinner and tea portion sizes. He’s well covered and will never starve no matter how much he whinges.

You’re making a rod for your own back there. Just say a firm NO!! It’s just stalling and delaying tactics and they do it because they know you’ll give in! My eldest used to do the same, I soon nipped that in the bud, us busy parents neeeeed a bit of ‘me’ time in the evening!!!

Sending supportive hugs. You're right, this is just another time when you're feeling the "aloneness" of your situation.

You sound a really caring, understanding and supportive mum. These kids have clearly been through it a bit too with the break up. That will explain some of their behaviours.

I really hate a lot of the harsh comments on here disguised as tough love. Being a mother is really hard, nobody is perfect and making yourself vulnerable by putting it on a forum is like throwing yourself to the wolves sometimes.

I sometimes want to put something on here but genuinely would fear the responses - a lot of mum shaming!

Hopefully not I'm working with a soon to be 13 year old boy who doesn't want to leave mummy's bed

Of course they’re going to play up. You’re engaging with it

You're reading chapter books to a 4yo, why ?

Stuff like gruffalo, Johnny duddle, that's not my hat etc are far more suitable and quick to conclude. I can do 3 in 5 minutes too!

OP I’m not really sure what you want from this thread? Actual advice or just to vent? I assume it’s the latter as all efforts if the former are just pushed away by you. We’re all absolutely here for you to vent/chat, but maybe don’t ask for advice if that’s not really what you’re after.

Tbh long chapters prob arent really suitable at age 4? Do you not read stuff like Topsy and Tim, much shorter stuff?
If it is some of the shorter chapter books just do 1 chapter, 10-15 mins is plenty of time for them to get drowsy listening to you, then lights out! Wash/ Clean teeth before you start reading, you want them to get snug and cosy and feel a bit sleepy, lamp only not the big bright light!

Although I totally get not wanting a routine I've never worked with or had my own family have issues with meal times most people get hungry at reasonably set times but accept a snack or full meal. I'd be more worried about setting a routine that sees you sat on the landing in view until they are adults if they are that fixed on routine. I've also had a lot who get fixed on games and stay up all night so a visual times up helps.

They are delaying bedtime. My twins used to be terrible for this. They eat about 5:30-6pm, up to bed at 7:30 and I allow them a snack before bed. I bring water into the room. One drink, one toilet trip and that’s it. Unless they are ill or something else is going on.