To not get DC a snack

Most likely delay tactics as others have said, however, extreme thirst and weeing alot are symptoms of diabetes, I got it when i was 5, it runs in my family. Are they thirsty & weeing lots during the day?! Not trying to be dramatic here, but I just wanted to say, after my own experience, it's worth ruling out for sure. Otherwise, good luck, it's likely to be a phase. My 4 YO has started being "hungry" right before bedtime too!

Just to add OP I don’t stick with regular bedtimes either. So mine are almost 5 and 6 and I still lie down with them at night (don’t care what anyone says I enjoy it, it’s our time to discuss our day). I gauge how busy we have been in the day and what time they got up then decide on bedtime, if I know we got up late and have had a lazy day I’m not wasting time lying down when I know they aren’t ready. If we’ve been up early and busy day then earlier bed, sometimes it’s half 7 others half 9. Also if one wakes up early I wake the other one up to make sure they are both tired at the same time at night. I’m a single mom and it is tough but it does get easier. You will get your routine given time.
it sounds like your a great mom, tending to their needs, just toughen up a bit with the no food after lights out, drinks at side of bed and it will soon be fine. Good luck, you can do this

Don't give up the activities, they are so beneficial to children, especially as the youth club seems to be helping with your 7 year old's separation issues.

I really think its worth trying melatonin, it was an absolute game changer for my oldest who could never fall asleep and bedtime would take hours every night. Especially for ND children, who often don't produce enough melatonin/produce it at the right time themselves. There can be side effects, they might be a bit groggy in the mornings, at least to begin with, and there is a chance they will get nightmares but not everyone gets nightmares with it (my DD didn't) but I still think its worth trying.

At 5 and 7 I would suggest earlier dinner that takes longer than 30 minutes and a snack and one drink (like toast and a milk drink) before bed.

Can they have a cup of water next to their beds in case they are thirsty?
Why do they have to ask or tell you that they want to go to the toilet? - you should be hearing little footsteps going to and from the bathroom rather than an attention seeking statement or request.
if they are hot they can take off their pyjamas without an announcement or request at that age surely?
I wonder if you feed them earlier with small snack later, give them more a bit more independence (but keep to bedtime), and stop running around after them, things might improve.

NO NO NO NO & did I say NO?!?!
They’ve eaten, they’ve drank and they’ve been the toilet…. They’re in bed and they need to sleep .. end of!

If they play up they loose tech, that trip to the toy store tomorrow or something that will give them incentive, but stick to I! They’ll cry and make demands but it’s just delay tactics and testing you… you say No and you mean it. Sit them down tomorrow and write down the routine, tell them once in bed you expect them to sleep and that’s it.. kids are master manipulators and you have to stand firm…

I do think though that the final meal and drink should be at least 2 hours before bedtime… you have to give that fluid time to get through.. if they need a wee after lights out then you say… quick pee and back into bed without another word!! Then just say a firm no and leave them to cry (it’s not crying because they’re starving… they’re crying because they’re not winning/getting to stay up.

I remember stringing bed time out for as long as I could… literally waiting for my dad to loose his shit and threaten us!…
all I can say is put boundaries in, win even the small battles, I’ve seen what happens to children who push boundaries and win… my friend gave in to every tantrum.. now has two teens who rule the roost, attend school only when they want, stay up all night and sleep most of the day…
So be firm and tell them, don’t ask… and if they play up they have consequences…. They’ll give up playing you when they realise you won’t back down.
Good luck x

I’m a single mum to 3 girls with ASD and have been on my own with them since my youngest was born so I’ve got 10 years of experience trying to put multiple kids with varying needs and ages to bed with only one set of hands. It’s hard, it’s exhausting and it makes every day feel like a fight because you know bedtime is coming every day. You are doing great, absolutely brilliantly and you need to try and remember that as you negotiate this situation because it’s hard when you’re in the eye of the storm.

from what you’ve said here, and from my experience with my daughters, I’d say your 4 year old is anxious about transitioning into sleep, it is a massive sensory and physical change to go through. There may also be dreams she’s having during sleep that she can’t actually remember or put into words but are still there in her brain. What she needs is to be reminded that she’s safe and that you’re there to look after her while she sleeps.

Personally I’d try and separate bedtime for the two, using screens to entertain the older one if necessary (reduced screen time is not actually recommended in the same way for ASD people) and then I’d focus on the 4 year old, cuddling her, reading to her, explaining how sleep works, tell her you know it feels strange to fall asleep, that you know dreams can be weird, that you sometimes have trouble falling asleep yourself but that you always feel better for it in the morning. Talk to her about where you’ll be while she’s asleep, tell her that it’s your job to keep her safe and look after her while she sleeps and that you are more powerful and braver than any monster or any worry she has and that you’ll protect her from those while she lets her body rest.

there is no need to have snacks after bedtime but you could get her a drinks bottle so she can have water in bed. Trips to the toilet have to happen but if you’re with her and she has your attention she probably won’t need to go.

Once she feels safer and more confident in transitioning to sleep, because she trusts you are telling the truth about it being your job to keep her safe while she sleeps, she’ll need you physically there for less and less time.

its not quick, as in it may take weeks or months, but all three of mine got there eventually.

I'd do bedtime, get them into bed after story etc, then sit by the door in silence. Ignore any talking, sit so they can't get by etc. On repeat. They'll soon stop

The amount of advice about what time to have tea, what to have seems extreme. You know they are not hungry, they just don't want to go to bed. It does not matter what time you give them dinner, or what protein rich food you provide comest the hour they will do whatever it takes to prolong the inevitable. Just repeat the mantra, the kitchen is closed, go to bed and after a few days the message will be taken!

I hear you.

I'm 2 years on from leaving their dad and he's no longer around but it's much easier without him. Yeah there was a couple of basic things he did like yours sitting with your older one but you'll soon work it out I promise and it does get easier. I don't want to sound like some drug pusher but I really do think it's worth trying medication for your older one, my two can be ran like dogs all day and be physically dropping but still can't sleep without the adaflex/melatonin and it really is a game changer. You don't have to give it every night and you don't have to subscribe to a lifetimes supply, just get you through this monumental change of becoming a single parent, getting your older one through the anxiety of being alone and getting your younger one to stop chancing her arm! Then you can reassess and see if the benefits are still needed/worth it. Has your younger one started acting up since her dad left? If that's the case then your parenting will soon reassure her that she's safe, you're not about to leave and it'll settle down again soon enough. Or eventually she will be a teenager and you’ll be back on wanting to know how to get her out of bed! It feels never ending now but it isn't, it will end and you will get through it.

I've read the majority of your replies and it's so clear that you are so in tune with how your DC need to be parented and they are lucky to have you as their parent. Just please don't forget yourself in all this, you need time to grieve the end of your marriage, even if it's a relief and a blessing he's fucked off you still need time to adjust. Use the screens, give them crisps/chocolate etc, just get through the adjustment period then you can gradually fade out whatever you've used as a temporary so help me god get me through this day before I do time for harming this cheeky brat of mine who is pushing their luck! Have a glass of wine/bath/lying in a dark room by yourself when they (finally) go to sleep, whatever you need to get through x

That's so recent OP. Be kind to yourself and them.

I have a similar 4yo and OH MY. GOSH. Any excuse under the sun to get out of bed.

An audio book? Don't you read to them?

Poor kids... tea should be about 5 ish.

Then they have a couple of hours to wind down, bath, book and a snack.. brush teeth and then lights off!

Job done by 8pm!

I'm. Going to change my opinion on the activities having realised your full situation. They should stay.

If your bed routine (in terms of no drinks etc) was shorter, the activities would be fine. Overall the activities probably bring more to your life than they take, and being home for a long bed routine isn't needed. Like you said, your actual routine is pretty short.

Could you try taking a tablet or laptop to watch on the landing? Might feel more evening to you.

We also have a 7 year old, 4 year old and a 2 year old. Dinner (or tea, whichever you prefer!) for us is at 5 as they’re so hungry after school/nursery. There’s no way they’d be able to wait until 7. In fact, in the winter they’re asleep by 7/7.30. In the summer it is usually a bit later as it’s so light. My eldest sometimes tries delay tactics but we rarely allow him a snack or anything. They listen to a Tonie on the Toniebox, however we’ve found that the story ones keep eldest awake as he’s just listening to the story! Song ones are a lot better, however they are all getting a bit young for him how. Often we just put relaxing music on Spotify. I also try to massage a magnesium sleep cream into their legs as well as they often have growing pains or just aches from being so active all day!

Stay strong, good luck!!

Reading your replies sounds like you are doing a lot to help your children try and feel comfortable with the situation.

Would having a monitor on while your with 4yo help 7yo as he'd be able to see you on there?

You're doing great!

I've been there with a child taking the piss. I wouldn't give snacks, but I do understand that things do take ages. If you want to stop the snacks, you'll need to teach them what will happen well in advance, don't just spring it on them at bedtime.
Sympathies. I get that it's not as simple as some are making out.

Where’s the shower/ bath after a long day at school? lol just straight into pjs