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AIBU?

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Remove Travellers or relinquish land title?

227 replies

Toetouchingtitties · 21/07/2024 13:39

I’ve recently become an Administrator for a relatives estate. As part of their estate, they owned a very small plot of land in a London borough, surrounded by houses. The land is fenced in and did have a padlocked entranced.

I visited recently to check everything was ok, to find Travellers, plus their horses have taken it over. This must’ve happened in the last few months. It was relatively contained and tidy before - but is now an absolute mess, covered with rubbish etc.

I’ve enquired with bailiffs about costs to remove them and it’s roughly the same as the land would be worth if I sold it. I do not want the hassle of managing the eviction, re-securing the site, cleaning it up and then selling it; especially as the estate will lose money overall.

So, I’m thinking of just relinquishing the land back to the land registry and walking away. But, at the back of my mind I’d feel somewhat guilty as the area is otherwise well kept by the local residents.

AIBU to save the estate money, but by doing so potentially impact the local residents enjoyment of the area? For clarity, I don’t know anyone who lives in the area, I don’t live locally and we don’t have any local family ties.

OP posts:
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EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · 21/07/2024 16:31

I certainly wouldn’t hand the land back. I think local people would pay over the odds to own this land just to evict the squatters. Absolutely letter drop as your first option.

Toetouchingtitties · 21/07/2024 16:28

Ok. I’m not going to get hooked into certain aspect so this thread around Travellers per se.

I had an estate agent valuation, several months ago when it was vacant. It was based on no planning permission.

The plot itself is very small, in my opinion, but I have an architect drawing for a two bed house that fits it (that was produced by my relative for his application). It seemingly has enough space for a couple of caravans plus vehicles on the flat section, then the horses are on the grass bit where it slopes away. I suspect the horses are pastured during the day on the land next door (I’m currently establishing who owns it) - never owned a horse, no idea what space they need.

I contacted a Bailiff company who has given me a basic price, without court involvement initially. That’s fairly cheap. But… have indicated this will not stop them coming back, and to utilise the courts for the additional protection post removal. They have also given additional costs for machinery and additional staff, in case it’s needed. Basically I asked for the ‘worst case quote’. They suggested the plot was chosen as there is secure fencing around it, so is attractive for the Travellers.

I haven’t had a cleaning company come in to quote remediation costs yet, I’m estimating based on internet info.

I had originally thought it would make great allotment for the local area - it still can. But by the time I spend the estates money getting the occupants to leave, repairing the fencing, sanitising the site and hours of my time sorting it out, there is literally no difference between the estate agent quote and the estate costs.

I will obviously see if I can negotiate them leaving themselves first - so thank you for the people who have given me contact details for that.

I will look into a non-vacant sale (I admit, I didn’t think that would be possible until you lot pointed it out).

I really don’t want to keep hold of it for longer than necessary, as I’m 80 miles away and just don’t have the time for regular visits.

You’ve given me lots to think about, which I’ll do…

OP posts:
Waltdisnerd · 21/07/2024 16:27

Bunbry · 21/07/2024 16:25

My grandfather was a tenant farmer 100 years ago. He was happy to accommodate travelling families because they were a source of useful intelligence about farming and market conditions elsewhere in the country - additionally, advice given for my father, who was a sickly baby may have saved his life.
Unfortunately, the lack of effective law enforcement and police decisions to view criminal activity as 'civil matters' have led to a situation in which it has become prudent to be distrustful of those who live a mobile life.
A well-managed site with law abiding inhabitants who are respectful of neighbours would be very encouraging and would go a long way to changing stereotypical views, failing that, the view of council-tax-paying residents is unlikely to change.

ps It is ironic that due to usually living in 'non-hereditable' homes, travellers don't pay council tax, but they also tend not to claim many benefits or use many public services which leads to a further lack of mutual understanding.

Mostly all English travellers and gypsies and settled nowadays so they do pay council tax.

Valeriesimpleton · 21/07/2024 16:25

Hare coursing and fighting bait. Lurchers are ideal.

Bunbry · 21/07/2024 16:25

Waltdisnerd · 21/07/2024 16:09

I'm not an expert in this matter, I was just replying to a comment that called us all rubbish and a blight on the country but I see it's now been removed.
I don't have any advice for op unfortunately but I can't stand the casual racism we receive.
I work hard and pay my taxes like everyone else but always get treated differently.

My grandfather was a tenant farmer 100 years ago. He was happy to accommodate travelling families because they were a source of useful intelligence about farming and market conditions elsewhere in the country - additionally, advice given for my father, who was a sickly baby may have saved his life.
Unfortunately, the lack of effective law enforcement and police decisions to view criminal activity as 'civil matters' have led to a situation in which it has become prudent to be distrustful of those who live a mobile life.
A well-managed site with law abiding inhabitants who are respectful of neighbours would be very encouraging and would go a long way to changing stereotypical views, failing that, the view of council-tax-paying residents is unlikely to change.

ps It is ironic that due to usually living in 'non-hereditable' homes, travellers don't pay council tax, but they also tend not to claim many benefits or use many public services which leads to a further lack of mutual understanding.

oakleaffy · 21/07/2024 16:23

Edit: The only trace he leaves are grazed circles on the common
He even poo picks.

oakleaffy · 21/07/2024 16:21

Waltdisnerd · 21/07/2024 16:09

I'm not an expert in this matter, I was just replying to a comment that called us all rubbish and a blight on the country but I see it's now been removed.
I don't have any advice for op unfortunately but I can't stand the casual racism we receive.
I work hard and pay my taxes like everyone else but always get treated differently.

It’s the mess and aggravation and intimidation that rightfully make people wary.

There’s an old boy who travels with his horses and two vehicles
Always welcome as he leaves no trace.

Trees6 · 21/07/2024 16:21

Head over there in a suit, carrying a briefcase and a laptop. Say you’re a tax inspector and you’ll be back at 9am on Tuesday to review all accounts and paperwork.

They’ll be gone by Tuesday morning. Job done.

oakleaffy · 21/07/2024 16:09

MinnieCauldwell · 21/07/2024 16:03

Don't take them to court, you will run out of money before they do, they are loaded. Many have houses in Ireland.
They invaded a car park near my office, they left piles of soiled nappies and several dead dogs behind. So that was nice.

What IS it with dead dogs and Travellers?

We had a wonderful RSPCA Lurcher puppy who was found after Travellers had been evicted
Dead dogs and skeletal pups.

When the Lurcher got fit-( a year later) they tried to steal her from us !

She was fabulous, but animals are tools to them
not pets.

Waltdisnerd · 21/07/2024 16:09

Bunbry · 21/07/2024 16:05

Excellent, an expert. How would you suggest that the OP resolves this matter?

I'm not an expert in this matter, I was just replying to a comment that called us all rubbish and a blight on the country but I see it's now been removed.
I don't have any advice for op unfortunately but I can't stand the casual racism we receive.
I work hard and pay my taxes like everyone else but always get treated differently.

Wetherspoons · 21/07/2024 16:09

Miyagi99 · 21/07/2024 16:04

I would see if the travellers would like to buy the land from you.

"The deal was, you bought it how you saw it.

Look, I've helped you as much as I'm going to help you.

See that car? Use it.

You should fuck off now while you still got the legs to carry you."

MikeRafone · 21/07/2024 16:07

sell the land

TerrysNeapolitan · 21/07/2024 16:07

Onlywayisupmaybe · 21/07/2024 14:03

OP hasn’t said that the residents aren’t interested.
Oh, and it is easy to be PC about travellers if you haven’t lived with their filth and criminality in your local area.

I agree. They have caused so much damage to local farmers fields where I live, leaving everything where in an utter mess, leaving human waste etc, no respect there.

Miyagi99 · 21/07/2024 16:05

Hoppinggreen · 21/07/2024 14:03

Why would people using it for free want to buy it?

So they can’t get evicted, we have a few travelling communities by us that own their bits of land.

BiscuityBoyle · 21/07/2024 16:05

oakleaffy · 21/07/2024 16:01

It’s the mess, the human excrement, the theft the intimidation and general hassle to local communities that gives Travellers a bad name.
They are lawless and basically do as they like.

Police certainly don’t bother them.

If they were law abiding and tidy - different matter.

When I was young we had a couple of gypsy families that would come and camp in our field for a week or so every year with our blessing. They were never any trouble. We didn’t know they were there. They left the field as they had found it.

The same cannot be said for some traveller groups.

Wetherspoons · 21/07/2024 16:05

Exactlab · 21/07/2024 16:01

But you, as administrator for the estate, have not made any enquiries.

This is land in a London borough that could be developed in the future - or sold to neighbours who could increase their yard space.

If the land is big enough for travellers to camp their trailers and horses it is big enough to be developed later on down the line.

Nonsense about land that's big enough for travellers to camp their trailers and horses on necessarily being big enough to be developed on later down the line.

Travellers camp anywhere and everywhere, from small car-parks to big farmlands and everywhere in between.

Stillnormal · 21/07/2024 16:05

oakleaffy · 21/07/2024 16:01

It’s the mess, the human excrement, the theft the intimidation and general hassle to local communities that gives Travellers a bad name.
They are lawless and basically do as they like.

Police certainly don’t bother them.

If they were law abiding and tidy - different matter.

It’s the assumption that every member of an ethnic group will, by definition, think, live and behave in the same way as the most anti-social members of that group that makes it racism.

Bunbry · 21/07/2024 16:05

Waltdisnerd · 21/07/2024 16:00

@UnfriendMe I think you are human rubbish actually.
I am a traveller and proud.
How racist!

Excellent, an expert. How would you suggest that the OP resolves this matter?

Miyagi99 · 21/07/2024 16:04

I would see if the travellers would like to buy the land from you.

MinnieCauldwell · 21/07/2024 16:03

Don't take them to court, you will run out of money before they do, they are loaded. Many have houses in Ireland.
They invaded a car park near my office, they left piles of soiled nappies and several dead dogs behind. So that was nice.

Valeriesimpleton · 21/07/2024 16:03

Wetherspoons · 21/07/2024 16:01

"It had previously occurred to me... that he'd taken the demise of his mother rather lightly.

For every action, there is a reaction.
And a gypsy reaction... is quite a fucking thing."

2 minutes Turkish

KnickerlessParsons · 21/07/2024 16:02

It's not racism. I'd say the same about anyone who shits and pees in a public carpark and leaves it there.

Exactlab · 21/07/2024 16:01

Toetouchingtitties · 21/07/2024 13:45

My relative had already tried it - they won’t give planning permission.

But you, as administrator for the estate, have not made any enquiries.

This is land in a London borough that could be developed in the future - or sold to neighbours who could increase their yard space.

If the land is big enough for travellers to camp their trailers and horses it is big enough to be developed later on down the line.

oakleaffy · 21/07/2024 16:01

Stillnormal · 21/07/2024 15:56

tell you what’s a blight on this country is bigotry and racism. Never understand why people think this single form of racism is acceptable.

It’s the mess, the human excrement, the theft the intimidation and general hassle to local communities that gives Travellers a bad name.
They are lawless and basically do as they like.

Police certainly don’t bother them.

If they were law abiding and tidy - different matter.

Wetherspoons · 21/07/2024 16:01

Stillnormal · 21/07/2024 15:52

No it’s not your right it’s the criminal offence of arson and attempted murder

"It had previously occurred to me... that he'd taken the demise of his mother rather lightly.

For every action, there is a reaction.
And a gypsy reaction... is quite a fucking thing."