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ANGRY! ( and I've fucked up)

256 replies

marmoet · 21/07/2024 07:28

My very elderly parents have recently gone into a nursing home after both having stints in hospital. Prior to that they were very dodgily living at home alone but stubborn and happy .
As my sister and I are both POA and do not get on this has caused a lot of friction but I thought we were sorted.
They have been in the nursing home for about a month ( after 2 months in hospital) and today I went by their house to check the place as it is empty and their car was gone.
I rang my sister worried it was stolen and she said that mum and dad had "lent" it to her partner. He has driven it interstate ( Australia , so hundrends of kms). WHen I spoke to my parents they thought he was "borrowing it to go to somewhere for work ( a completely different city), and basically had no idea . They are very old. My sister has a car and her partner has a car, both expensive ones btw.
I got cranky and pointed out that they have a grandson who has no car , then they started crying and then I felt bad , as I behaved badly but I'm fecked either way.
They are saying things like we always had dogs ( when I was never allowed one). They are denying the fact that we spent our life tip-toeing around my sister "be quiet , she's asleep, come and help with the grdening". It's like my life didn't exist as there is nobody left to verify it.
Sorry for such a pathetic unloading.
If the car had been at my sisters I would seriously gone over and driven it here, but he has taken it interstate and I don't know the plate number. Neither do my parents. My sister gets all of their mail delivered to her.

OP posts:
CanelliniBeans · 21/07/2024 08:52

Quitelikeit · 21/07/2024 08:46

This is so annoying - message her and ask when the car is coming back?!

Definitely. I'd email so there is an audit trail. Keep records. Check any bank accounts and make an inventory of valuables. Make sure you communicate in writing and raise concerns this way too.
I have friends who have been completely screwed over by greedy siblings basically stealing assets and hiding money which meant the parents didn't get the care they deserved initially

veritusvarity · 21/07/2024 08:51

Your sister got in there first. You now know the type of person she is. If your parents don't have capacity, then, depending on the law in OZ you could seek legal advice, as she's potentially stolen the vehicle.
However if your parents have capacity, then there is nothing you can do. It's ultimately their choice.
I think you should be prepared for a lot more grabby behaviour from your sister. I assume you are both executors to the will, should there be anything left over from care home fees? (I know that must sound mercenary, and I hope you parents have a long, comfortable and happy time in their care home) but I think you need to be prepared for unpleasant surprises once your parents have gone.
Tread carefully op, if you upset your parents, you'll be seen as the bad guy, but try not to let your sister operate a lone, when it comes to your parents finances, and make sure you have a copy of all their finances, to ensure your sister doesn't skim anything else off. I think you can assume from here on in you and your sister won't have a good relationship, and once you're no longer tied by your parents you'll be no contact.

stormywhethers321 · 21/07/2024 08:50

Did anyone in your family KNOW that your son wanted to buy the car? Aside from you, I mean. Did your parents or sister's family know that an offer was in the works?

It's a very different thing to take the car knowing a grandchild is trying to scrape together the money to make a fair offer vs just borrowing a car that is otherwise sitting idle.

gardenmusic · 21/07/2024 08:50

Wormfanclub
The car was taken under false pretences from vulnerable people for whom she has power of attorney.
The parents have become a resource to plunder, which is far more important than who had what as a child, and who gets 'presents' (it was a loan) and who does not.

Thisismetooaswell · 21/07/2024 08:49

No I don't think it's OK that he took the car. But then, would your sister think it was OK if your son had it? The fact you don't get on with your sister is clouding this for you. Your parents being elderly and frail is the important thing -be nice to them, one day they won't be here and you'll miss them. Let the issue of the car go, you're the only one it is stressing

pasturesgreen · 21/07/2024 08:49

marmoet · 21/07/2024 07:37

No. It was "minding the house". A house that is empty for months attracts squatters in the area they live. If there's a car in the drive , not so much. Also , how come everyone is all good with him taking my parents car?
I don't believe for one second that everyone would be ok with that IRL

You may not believe it, but I for one genuinely wouldn't mind, as wouldn't a few others on the thread, by the sound of it. Surely better that than sitting on the drive gathering dust.

If the car had been given to your son, it wouldn't have been sat on the drive "minding the house" either, so that reeks of double standards, really.

ijustneedtokeepbreathing · 21/07/2024 08:49

It's not really about the car. Op's posts are simmering with rage over past issues and her sister's conduct and it's affect on her earlier years ..... I think.

Uricon2 · 21/07/2024 08:49

"They are saying things like we always had dogs ( when I was never allowed one). They are denying the fact that we spent our life tip-toeing around my sister "be quiet , she's asleep, come and help with the grdening"."

These are the parents you describe as "very sweet". I don't think this is about the car, or really about your sister, but the people who prioritised her over you and continue to do so.

You can and will feel angry, but IMO you would be better advised to step away a bit and protect yourself.

Quitelikeit · 21/07/2024 08:46

This is so annoying - message her and ask when the car is coming back?!

Wormfanclub · 21/07/2024 08:45

How much is the car worth?

Maybe that’s why you’re getting conflicting comments here.

You’ve described it as being used as a run-around / a car a teenager could afford. So I’m picturing it as only worth a few grand at most. I really don’t see why that matters. It’s a small drop in care home fees.

Your sister is clearly not very nice. But you know that already. It’s not worth getting worked up about an old banger. It’s certainly not worth phoning your parents and having a go at them, saying oh your grandson doesn’t have a car, guilt tripping them. At their age. It doesn’t matter if they don’t know which city your sister partner drove it to. I think you need to take a big step back from the whole thing.

gardenmusic · 21/07/2024 08:45

marmoet · Today 08:38
It's joint. ( I only know that as my mum gave me some paperwork and I spoke to the lawyer). Theoretically, she can't do a thing without me, but that hasn't stopped her yet.

And it won't. She may not empty the bank account, but 'birthday presents' 'gifts' for her children.
There's lots of sneaky, but just about legal ways that they can denude your parents of their goods.
I take back wait for the next thing - take legal advice on this, and get her removed from the power of attorney.

Thisoldheartofmine · 21/07/2024 08:42

I've only read the beginning of this thread so hopefully kinder posts prevail.
You have all my sympathy @marmoet .
Parents , siblings can be v stressful and very visceral, basic emotions arise. Throw confusion and moving into a home = nightmare.
It's not so much about the car, it's your sisters actions and what it represents.
Flowers

marmoet · 21/07/2024 08:42

nomoretreats · 21/07/2024 08:32

So why didn't your son?

Family dynamics are tough and we all have baggage. This situation isn't going to get any better and is it really worth fighting over a car?

Maybe he didn't want to drive his expensive car hundreds of miles?

You need to take a step back. He asked, they gave permission.

Why didn't my son? Because he was well raised by me!!! You don't steal off elderly people even if they are your grandparents. if you want to buy something of theirs you pay a reasonable price. You don't just take it! I despair.
I hope some of the people on here have nicer kids and grandkids than they themselves appear to be.

OP posts:
user1984778379202 · 21/07/2024 08:42

marmoet · 21/07/2024 07:41

You could too
Just ask

But if we asked and your parents said yes, we have permission. You might not like them giving it to strangers but it is still not theft! He is their SIL. They said he could take it.

I think the bigger issue here is you and your sister hate each other’s guts and it’s therefore making a stressful situation even more stressful. Not sure what to suggest, other than the nuclear option of you giving up your POA and walking away to alleviate the angst but I can’t imagine you want to do that.

Isthiscorrect · 21/07/2024 08:40

Which of you is managing parents bank accounts. Because if it's sister you need to get onto the bank asap to ensure you have full visibility of everything that they are spending.
Don't have adult social services or similar to ask for advice how to go about this? They will have seen it all before. But hurry before the house is sold to them for a pittance.

LogicVoid · 21/07/2024 08:38

Given that your sister has previous 'form' for being overly entitled, please ensure that the estate agent and solicitors are aware that you have joint POA and need to be consulted on any actions and financials.

Cuppateatea · 21/07/2024 08:38

I get you OP.
As per usual some MN don’t get it and are just jumping on to be rude and make themselves feel better about their lives perhaps!
Anyway your sister sounds like a CF. I’m not surprised you’re angry. Your parents have enabled her all her life and she has sat on her pedestal quite happily with her ridiculous expectations. I have a similar issue with my older sibling (who I’m NC with as much as possible) and it really grates!!
I guess you’re going to have to give up on the car situation for your own sanity. I hope you’re able to resolve and deal with future issues but it’s not easy.

marmoet · 21/07/2024 08:38

It's joint. ( I only know that as my mum gave me some paperwork and I spoke to the lawyer). Theoretically, she can't do a thing without me, but that hasn't stopped her yet.

OP posts:
Freespeechisvital · 21/07/2024 08:33

NotAgainWilson · 21/07/2024 08:15

It is not about who needs the car, it is about her using assets she has control of through the POA for her own benefit not her parents’ benefit.

She has blatantly misused the POA not to protect her parents’ interests but to benefit herself. Simple.

Absolutely this

One thing to remember with POA is you are beholden to act in the best interests of the DP
Not what's best for you.
That is abuse.
Can each POA act alone or is it joint Op?

gardenmusic · 21/07/2024 08:33

But I agree with you op they took the car under false pretences and don't plan to give it back anytime soon.

This is precisely it. They did not want to put the miles on their car.
OK you might argue that the car was just sitting there, but they have taken advantage of their parents infirmity.
If they were still in their home, you would not borrow the car, put a massive amount of miles on it without a very good explanation, and not return it.
What will they ' borrow' next from the parents?
What signature will they ' need' next?
When you have power of attorney everything needs to be squeaky clean.
OP I'd let this one go, then if anything else dodgy happens apply to have their power of attorney removed.

MrsGlennBulb · 21/07/2024 08:33

This could be an indication that there’s a lot more going on behind your back than you realise. For instance, are you sure you both still hold joint POA? Is there a new will?

In my experience there is little you can do when a scheming sister manipulates elderly vulnerable parents.

The law might be on your side, but getting justice involves spending thousands on solicitors with no guarantee of success.

Walk away from it OP, live your life in peace. She has to live with what she has done, you don’t.

marmoet · 21/07/2024 08:32

MyOtherCarisAVauxhallZafira · 21/07/2024 08:30

You don't know it's not coming back? He's borrowed it and already has another car. He's taken it Interstate, he can bring it back, it's not on the moon.
You just say to your sister, I had had the car valued as we're going to need the money for the care fees. It's worth £6k what do you want to do do you want to buy it or is BIL going to bring it back so it can be sold?
If your son was going to pay market rate for it, he can pay market rate for something else it makes no difference, unless you were planning to do the same as your sister but she beat you to it

It's 2000 km away so not handy but yes I will ask

OP posts:
nomoretreats · 21/07/2024 08:32

marmoet · 21/07/2024 07:42

SOmeone could walk down the street and ask permission. They'd say yes

So why didn't your son?

Family dynamics are tough and we all have baggage. This situation isn't going to get any better and is it really worth fighting over a car?

Maybe he didn't want to drive his expensive car hundreds of miles?

You need to take a step back. He asked, they gave permission.

marmoet · 21/07/2024 08:31

Mayorq · 21/07/2024 08:25

"my son could make them a totally fair offer."

Which by your logic they don't have capacity to aveiro. If they can't give valid consent to lending the car, they can't give valid consent to selling it. So your son would equally be committing theft by your standards

That's just argumentative crap. You can get a valuation of a car online or by a dealer. We didn't even get that far as I thought it was best left in the drive until the house was sold but do carry on with your garbage.

OP posts:
GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 21/07/2024 08:30

Not sure why you’re getting a hard time here, OP. Seems to me that your sister and BiL are taking advantage, if not seriously taking the piss. If they had needed to borrow the car on a temp basis, because one of theirs was e.g. being repaired, that’d be different.

If your folks no longer need the car, I’d have thought it should be sold, to add to the nursing home fees pot - assuming they are paying, or will have to pay for care at some point.

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