ANGRY! ( and I've fucked up)

But he didn't steal the car. Your parents gave him permission to use it. It seems you'd be happy for your parents to give the car to your Son but are annoyed they've lent it to Sisters partner. Seems you're all on the take & not considering your parents have just been through a hospital stay & now moved into a home they're not used to & probably still getting settled in & there's you having a go at them & upsetting them.

I've read your post a couple times now to understand what's going on.

You're now hashing out the "wrongs" you feel have been done on you by your parent's with them now after they have spent a time in the hospital and have had their entire lives uprooted from their home and they are now in care.

You and your sister have POA and you now have to find a way to share and work together and it sounds like you have alot of animosity toward your sister for your perceived "wrongs" because she was/is treated differently than you.

I think you need to sit down with a therapist and work through these issues on your own. You should not be hashing out things with your parents. You should not be accusing your sister of theft. She also has POA and just as much right as you do.

You need to take a breath. Reach out to your sister and agree a way forward on how the assets of your parents are to be treated. Keep in mind though that your parents are still alive and they can overrule you and you have to suck it up.

If you want the car for your son, then it sounds like this asset needs to be agreed with your parents who should have it and how it should be used.

I think you owe your sister an apology. I think you really need the therapy to deal with these issues.

I wish you the best.

Report it stolen? Surely there are documents in the house with the licence plate details.

Also, as another poster stated, take what's yours and what you want to keep from the house now, because it'll be gone before you know it. My dad has gone through the same after the death of his mother, and it's amazing what it does to even family that gets on.

This! I feel for you as I do think it’s a bit strange that your brother-in-law needed to use the car when he has a perfectly good car of his own. It feels to me as if they are being manipulative but a lot of what is going on is to do with your resentment towards your sister that you’ve clearly had for a very long time, possibly very justifiably so. I would try and sort this out with your sister without involving your parents as they will only be upset. Wishing you the best of luck.

Surely the car, like the house is an asset of your parents and has a £ value. Does it still belong to your parents or has ownership been legally transferred? If it is still owned by your parents then maybe your Sister should formalise the transfer and pay for them for the car.

With POA there are 2 ways you can have it set up

1.On loss of capacity
2.Acting on your behalf if you have capacity -so dealing with your affairs of you are able to consent but you are in hospital or prefer someone to take care of it on your behalf.

I've literally just done mine

Totally know where you're coming from but you got to let it go. It's the same with my sister and I. I'm completely excluded but I've let it go. As long as my dad is OK that's all I'm worried about. I'm not in the will, it's all for my sister and nephew. Forget it and move on. They'll learn the hard way and your conscience is clear. Best wishes to you

Dread to think what she’s doing to their bank accounts!!!!
m all social services and report suspected abuse

Can you apply for sole POA on the grounds that your sister is abusing her position?
involve social services? You’ve literally got nothing to loose?!

If you have poa you can probably speak to the bank and require two signatures including yours for transactions op so she doesn’t just rob her parents blind. And if you treasure anything in the house consider removing it to keep safe. I think you’ve got the moral high ground here.

'WHen I spoke to my parents they thought he was "borrowing it to go to somewhere for work ( a completely different city), and basically had no idea.'

This is what he was given permission to do with the car, not drive it interstate (which in Australia is usually a long way!). I'd be very annoyed OP, I can't believe other posters are seemingly ok with this.

OP, so sorry that there have been so many awful posts....MN is full of them unfortunately.
Of course that is upsetting.
Your sister has taken advantage of your parents completely and given a car she doesn't own to her daughters boyfriend.
Absolutely contact them requesting payment or it returned.
Contact the solicitor via email (so there is a papertrail) and tell them what has happened so they are aware and cannot deny being informed.
Check out elder abuse charities for advice.
Your relationship with your sister is clearly over, so you have zero need to protect her awful behaviour.
Protect yourself too.
Sounds like you do far too much for your parents whom don't appreciate you.

@marmoet

Did your parents know that your DS wanted to buy their car?
Did your DSis know your DS wanted to buy that car?

It sounds like your DSis did ask your DPs, of course we don't know if she was deliberately vague to say which 'John' would be using the car.

If we take your word that she was being Machiavellian about it, just make it clear that you expect circa £4k to be put in the nursing home fund unless the car is returned and can be sold.

This car (and your sister) is taking up too much headspace / energy. Sounds like anything she does will trigger you. Is there a way you can cope for the next few years whilst your DPs are alive? After that you won't have to communicate with her again

Can you not ask your sister if she would agree to your son having the car when her husband gets back from his trip interstate? Maybe he used your parents car to give it a run because it shouldn’t sit there months on end not being used?

I think people are being quite mean to you. This is an emotional time and your anxiety is probably related to your parents being so old and frail. The move from hospital into a home is very stressful. Finding their care gone would be jarring.

I wonder if some therapy wouldn’t help right now? To deal with the stress of the situation, but also to address your feelings about your childhood, your sister and the impact both have had and are having on you.,

Similar but different situation. My mother has Alzheimer’s and is no longer allowed to drive. She offered her car to my son who doesn’t have a car. Wee were getting a few things sorted and the car went missing. My brother had taken it as his car needed work. He change the owner details and everything. He knew my son had been offered the car but he needed it immediately. The way I see it nothing lost as it was never ours. My brother felt he was able to take it and did so. Some things in life you just have to let go of for your own state of mind. Yes it is bloody annoying and you are angry but try to let it go, there will be worse to come with people who act like this and you need to be able to fight those battles

I honestly think you've drip fed a bit OP and that's why people are saying what's the problem with them using the car and it's ok.

If you'd said:-
'My elderly parents, who have dementia and are in a nursing home, were tricked in to giving permission to use their car my brother in law and sister... as joint POA I wasn't consulted'

Then maybe people would consider it them taking without consent as you are both POA.

Get the car back and sell it.

Just tell your sister that her hubby needs to get the car back to their house, otherwise you will be reporting it as stolen, and tell her it’s going to be sold to fund their care.

You might be very surprised at how low the level is for being considered as 'having capacity'.
As I understood it, when it was my uncle who had vascular dementia, he was considered as having capacity to make a will as long as, at the point where he said what he wanted for his estate, the solicitor was sure he did actually understand, in that instant, what he was doing. No matter that at times he was terribly confused or that, on another day or an hour later or earlier he would probably have been considered incapable. The solicitor, who was a specialist solicitor spent time with him and was sure he did have capacity.I was astonished. It can be a brief period where someone has clarity and understanding.

OP I don't know why people here are being so obtuse. They didn't have permission because your elderly parents are unable to give permission hence the POA. They should have asked you of course. You obviously can't trust them to have your parents best interest at heart or to keep you informed. Just keep your eyes open. You will probably find that other valuable stuff has gone missing too

Op, there are some very dense people on this thread who have zero emotional intelligence or who are willfully misunderstanding. There are obviously loads of things bound up in the car saga, it's the car but it's also more than that. As someone else said, have a look at the elderly parents board.

Not RTFT but just your messages. I think your sister should have mentioned it to you. My parents are very elderly and have just downsized massively. Both in ill health and are just struggling so much with surviving all their ailments they don’t seem to have much capacity for other decisions. My brother and I have been in contact continually when they give us anything to check that’s ok with each other. I would never take their unused car for my husband (nor myself) even if my parents offered it without talking to my brother first. It’s a difficult and sad time for you seeing your parents in a home and it brings out lots of emotions from the past. Perhaps try to chat to your sister when things are calmer.

I really feel for you OP.

My sibling isnt quite as bad as yours sounds, but will always have the "poor cry" begging bowl out. My dad even said that before he died, but never stopped filling it up for her.

And then we have to pick up the pieces/sort things out/ be there for our parent because she/he cant possibly be expected to - the sibling has "far too much to cope with" 🙄

As joint POA you need to tell your sister the money she sold the car for needs to be put into your parents bank account @£4k . Your DP will need all the proceeds from the sale of the car, house , possessions to fund their care .

It will be hard but going forward you my accurate records and receipts for all money spent .

Listen? Relate? Sympathise? Make practical suggestions? Share their similar experiences?