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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that Resident Parents should have more rights than Non Resident Parents.

112 replies

Theemeperorsnewclothes · 21/07/2024 01:39

I think we’ve gone too far into the patriarchy of the UK, political systems, family Courts, CMS. Non resident parents (over 90% male/fathers) have exactly the same rights as resident parents (over 90% female/mothers). A child centred approach is allowing the person who knows the child best to advocate for them. The resident parent should have more rights, with regards to making decisions/advocating for their child/children in the political/legal system in the UK. They, and their children should be protected in legislation.

OP posts:
Ottervision · 24/07/2024 20:12

Theemeperorsnewclothes · 24/07/2024 19:17

Did CMS catch up with your dearest too? Did that money grabbing ex actually hold your DHS accountable for his own children? What a witch she is for asking for support for THEIR children. Thank god the system in the UK doesn’t make absent parents responsible or accountable, but gives them all the parental rights.

Catch up with him? No need to. He paid it and more. One child lived with us for several years. Idk what to say.

She didn't need to hold him accountable, what she wanted was for him to fund her lifestyle, on top of paying for the kids.

He wasn't "absent" either but you carry on with your big rant hun.

Theemeperorsnewclothes · 24/07/2024 20:05

HowardTJMoon · 24/07/2024 19:35

OK. We get it. It's not enough for you that RPs already have total say over the day-to-day and emergency decisions. You hate your ex so much that you think he shouldn't have any say over the big stuff either. And because you despise him so much, you think that not only should he not be allowed any involvement in these big decisions, no NRP should be allowed just in case they might remind you of your ex.

Could you please put that rant in reverse. The RP knows their child on every level. They carried them, they loved and protected them before they were even born, they (in many cases) breast fed them and lost their own life and identity through this. Bottle fed mums did the same as they were the sole caregivers.

“You hate your ex so much that you think he shouldn't have any say over the big stuff either. And because you despise him so much, you think that not only should he not be allowed any involvement in these big decisions, no NRP should be allowed just in case they might remind you of your ex.”

I love my children and their well-being more than ex and future partner.

OP posts:
HowardTJMoon · 24/07/2024 19:35

OK. We get it. It's not enough for you that RPs already have total say over the day-to-day and emergency decisions. You hate your ex so much that you think he shouldn't have any say over the big stuff either. And because you despise him so much, you think that not only should he not be allowed any involvement in these big decisions, no NRP should be allowed just in case they might remind you of your ex.

Theemeperorsnewclothes · 24/07/2024 19:20

Theemeperorsnewclothes · 24/07/2024 19:17

Did CMS catch up with your dearest too? Did that money grabbing ex actually hold your DHS accountable for his own children? What a witch she is for asking for support for THEIR children. Thank god the system in the UK doesn’t make absent parents responsible or accountable, but gives them all the parental rights.

That was sarcasm for the avoidance of doubt.

OP posts:
Theemeperorsnewclothes · 24/07/2024 19:17

Ottervision · 24/07/2024 12:23

I'll use dhs ex as an example. She hated me more than she loves her own children. She didn't have their best interests at heart whatsoever. She had her own interests well ahead of them. Under your rules dh would have had even less say than he actually did.

Did CMS catch up with your dearest too? Did that money grabbing ex actually hold your DHS accountable for his own children? What a witch she is for asking for support for THEIR children. Thank god the system in the UK doesn’t make absent parents responsible or accountable, but gives them all the parental rights.

OP posts:
Theemeperorsnewclothes · 24/07/2024 19:10

Ottervision · 24/07/2024 12:23

I'll use dhs ex as an example. She hated me more than she loves her own children. She didn't have their best interests at heart whatsoever. She had her own interests well ahead of them. Under your rules dh would have had even less say than he actually did.

What evidence do you have of this? A mother really hated you more than the welfare of her children? And here lies the problem.

OP posts:
Ottervision · 24/07/2024 12:23

Theemeperorsnewclothes · 24/07/2024 01:23

How on earth would the RP not know the child’s needs best? “They don’t necessarily have the child’s best interests at heart” please explain.

I'll use dhs ex as an example. She hated me more than she loves her own children. She didn't have their best interests at heart whatsoever. She had her own interests well ahead of them. Under your rules dh would have had even less say than he actually did.

MouseofCommons · 24/07/2024 08:36

Yanbu. My dc's never saw their dad. I still couldn't double barrel their surnames in his absence.

HowardTJMoon · 24/07/2024 08:34

I suggest you have a look through the Stately Homes threads and realise that a lot of mothers (as well as a lot of fathers) do not necessarily have their children's best interests at heart.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/07/2024 06:56

What if the non resident parent believes the child should be vaccinated and the resident parent doesn't?

OpizpuHeuvHiyo · 24/07/2024 06:45

Theemeperorsnewclothes · 24/07/2024 01:49

“Nor does it mean you care about your child at all” this is the problem. The majority of RP’s/mothers know their child best. They absolutely care about their child and the good NRP’s do too. There is a significant ‘minority’ but significant enough of NRP’s who do not put the child at the centre, who use power and control (very evident in the CMS system) who will not put their child at the centre. This is the demographic I am talking about, not the ‘decent’ NRPs

Well good.
But your proposal in the OP would tar them all with the same brush, decent and awful alike.

I have a BIL who is a brilliant dad, and is definitely the parent who knows the child best. His ex isn't a great mum tbh. She's not very engaged with parenting and has form for putting both her career and her relationship with her new bloke as more iimportant than her child. However she's officially the RP (although child's time is actually very close to 50:50) because her home is closer to the good school in their town. It's dad who sorts out Dr and Dentist and shoe fittings etc.

This is just one family that doesn't fit the majority that you are talking about. I don't dispute that it's a majority but a law that assumes the majority circumstances apply to everyone is a bad law.

Theemeperorsnewclothes · 24/07/2024 01:49

TheOriginalEmu · 24/07/2024 01:41

Being the resident parent doesn’t automatically mean you know your child best.
being the resident parent doesn’t automatically mean you care about your child more. Nor does it mean you care about your child at all, in fact.
Not all RP are fanastic parents. Not all NRP are terrible/work shy/disinterested etc.

“Nor does it mean you care about your child at all” this is the problem. The majority of RP’s/mothers know their child best. They absolutely care about their child and the good NRP’s do too. There is a significant ‘minority’ but significant enough of NRP’s who do not put the child at the centre, who use power and control (very evident in the CMS system) who will not put their child at the centre. This is the demographic I am talking about, not the ‘decent’ NRPs

OP posts:
TheOriginalEmu · 24/07/2024 01:41

Theemeperorsnewclothes · 24/07/2024 01:23

How on earth would the RP not know the child’s needs best? “They don’t necessarily have the child’s best interests at heart” please explain.

Being the resident parent doesn’t automatically mean you know your child best.
being the resident parent doesn’t automatically mean you care about your child more. Nor does it mean you care about your child at all, in fact.
Not all RP are fanastic parents. Not all NRP are terrible/work shy/disinterested etc.

OpizpuHeuvHiyo · 24/07/2024 01:39

The law should make no assumptions about the parenting capacity of the non resident parent. In your case OP the resident parent may be better able to make important decisions but in other families it could be the other way around.

If parents can't agree what is in the child's best interests they need a neutral 3rd party, not any automatic bias in favour of one.

When there are only 2 people involved it can't be a democracy - you either agree or disagree and any rule that assumes more weight to one person's opinion is therefore totally removing all power from the other - if a choice is binary then it makes no difference if the weighting was 51:49 or 80:20 or 99:1 - there will always be one winner and one loser. So 50:50 weight of opinion with a neutral 3rd party to arbitrate is the only fair way unless one parent is so utterly awful that the courts strip then of their parental status.

Theemeperorsnewclothes · 24/07/2024 01:38

WhycantIkeepthisbloodyplantalive · 22/07/2024 20:18

What rights do you think you are not being afforded as the RP?

You say advocating for the child, What exactly do you mean by this, what is preventing you from doing so?

Family courts are starting to default to 50/50 care without truly understanding the impact of this. CMS operate on a “something is better than nothing” approach. The UK as a society vilify and demonise Single mothers. Fathers have all the rights but none of the enforced/legally binding responsibilities of being a parent. A mother would be in jail for neglect or abandonment if she did not meet her child’s needs. The father? He can do what he wants, he can even not pay child maintenance, he can dictate when he will have any parental responsibility… or not. He will be supported in the control and abuse, and the ‘system’ will still protect him, and persecute you and your children. Absent for a week, a month, a year, doesn’t matter. He will still have all the same rights and means to abuse. Surely we will all look back on this one day and be astounded and ashamed that it was ever allowed to happen.

OP posts:
Theemeperorsnewclothes · 24/07/2024 01:26

Ottervision · 22/07/2024 20:02

But if ops rules were in place, then one parent would have the power. What if it was the parent who you deem to be in the wrong. Then what?

I think you are missing the point here. It’s about getting away from ‘power and control’ and truly putting the child at the centre. I don’t know many mothers who don’t want the best for their children.

OP posts:
Theemeperorsnewclothes · 24/07/2024 01:23

TheOriginalEmu · 22/07/2024 01:50

That presumes that the RP knows the child ‘better’ which isn’t necessarily the case. They also don’t necessarily have the child’s best interest at heart. Both parents should be consulted, as much as practicable.

How on earth would the RP not know the child’s needs best? “They don’t necessarily have the child’s best interests at heart” please explain.

OP posts:
WhycantIkeepthisbloodyplantalive · 22/07/2024 20:18

What rights do you think you are not being afforded as the RP?

You say advocating for the child, What exactly do you mean by this, what is preventing you from doing so?

Dweetfidilove · 22/07/2024 20:17

I can see how some of the men written about on MN would make this attractive, but I don't think I can get onboard with one parent having all the rights.

Saying that, if I believe you are a danger to my child's physical or menta well-being (with good reason), I will disengage and you can take me to court.

Ottervision · 22/07/2024 20:02

JohnofWessex · 22/07/2024 08:10

The question I suggest is how a non resident parents rights can be enforced.

Clearly we dont want NRP's able to plat the fool over things like holidays abroad without good reason.

On the other hand my ex believed our son had a milk allergy and sent him off to a practitioner whose techniques were unsupported by scientific literature rather than the GP so I put my foot down, talked to the School and GP and made the quack aware that she was not to see my son again.

Discuss

But if ops rules were in place, then one parent would have the power. What if it was the parent who you deem to be in the wrong. Then what?

HucklefinBerry · 22/07/2024 19:51

Simonjt · 22/07/2024 00:40

A child isn’t a play thing that one person is allowed to play with more than someone else.

A parent who thinks they should have more rights than the other parent, is likely the one who isn’t putting the needs of the child first, but instead their need for power and control over the other parent.

Or is used to being the one to carry out the lion's share of EVERYTHING and is being constantly obstructed by the deadbeat non resident non maintenance paying parent who uses their rights to further control their ex.

see. it works both ways.

zendeveloper · 22/07/2024 15:15

Spirallingdownwards · 22/07/2024 01:54

except it won't have the same weight and the court will decide in your favour unless he is going to pay private school fees which you will be able to prove he won't because he doesn't even pay maintenance.

It does have the same weight at the moment though. I.e. I cannot register a school choice unless the second parent is in agreement.

I agree that the court is likely to side with me once it comes in front of the judge, but the current delay in just getting the first directions hearing is around 12 months - and then 6 to 12 months to next hearings.

HowardTJMoon · 22/07/2024 13:30

@AgileGreenSeal "In reality she can’t protect them at all. SS will take his lies over the children’s testimony every time."

Really? Every time? You've been involved in every SS case so you've seen this first-hand? Wow, you must have been busy.

SonicTheHodgeheg · 22/07/2024 13:16

I think it’s impossible to generalise for all divorced couples as there’s so many different patterns of living post divorce.

However I think that there should be some sort of document that a RP can fill out after say 2 years no contact which allows them solo rights over stuff like schooling, taking kids abroad etc A surprising number of stories involve a NRP having control over issues like schools when they haven’t even seen the kids in years.

In my case it looks like I have more power but that’s because my ex leaves all the decisions to me and wouldn’t be arsed to discuss or research things. He knows I will make the best decision I can and I’m not spiting him with my choices. I suspect that it’s a common scenario that works well because the NRP isn’t abusive just cba.

AgileGreenSeal · 22/07/2024 08:11

Theemeperorsnewclothes · 22/07/2024 02:34

I am not clouded by an adverse experience and I’ve actually successfully won a CMS tribunal. My concern is the hundreds of thousands of women who live with constant prejudice, worry and anxiety over just wanting to keep their children safe, and advocate for their rights, and know they can be settled in a reasonable routine. They are not out to persecute the non resident parent (over 90% fathers) they just want their child to be happy and settled. Many walk this fine line of the non resident parent using power and control for years, never actually going to court. Some get to court and are utterly terrified to say the wrong this because if you dare to advocate for your child, you’re accused of parental alienation. This is all too common and it’s about time children and resident parents are protected in legislation.

“Parental alienation” is the most terrifying phrase a caring, protective parent can ever hear in a family court setting.

It is the trump card played by an abuser to silence genuine concerns coming from the parent who is only trying to protect her child - often she has left him for domestic abuse and yet her children are forced by court to be with him, unsupervised and overnight.

When they come home traumatised and disclosing abusive behaviours she has a dilemma - to report to SS will add fuel to his allegations of parental alienation, yet how else can she protect them?

In reality she can’t protect them at all. SS will take his lies over the children’s testimony every time.

They then turn their attention on the protective parent, using the “parental alienation” accusation to effectively shut her up.

The court will follow the tone set by SS.

Behind closed doors the abuser will punish the children for “telling tales” and the children learn that there is no point telling anyone about what they are suffering because absolutely no one will make it stop. 😭