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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that Resident Parents should have more rights than Non Resident Parents.

112 replies

Theemeperorsnewclothes · 21/07/2024 01:39

I think we’ve gone too far into the patriarchy of the UK, political systems, family Courts, CMS. Non resident parents (over 90% male/fathers) have exactly the same rights as resident parents (over 90% female/mothers). A child centred approach is allowing the person who knows the child best to advocate for them. The resident parent should have more rights, with regards to making decisions/advocating for their child/children in the political/legal system in the UK. They, and their children should be protected in legislation.

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Theemeperorsnewclothes · 02/08/2024 23:30

*”has pretty much zero rights”

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Theemeperorsnewclothes · 02/08/2024 23:28

cheshirebloke · 02/08/2024 01:20

The OP still hasn't managed to articulate what extra rights the RP should have, just that the NRP should somehow have less/none. I think the current system is pretty fair and reasonable, and possibly a bit biased in the RPs favour in some ways.

In real terms, my ex has pretty much zero rights over our children's lives. There's very little she can control (thankfully), and not without going to court to try and enforce it.

@cheshirebloke so in “real terms” in your own words your ex “pretty has pretty much zero rights” over your children’s lives. I’m sure that is how she feels too. It is interesting that you are thankful that “There’s very little she can control”. Particularly when you have just stated she has zero rights and therefore no control.

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cheshirebloke · 02/08/2024 01:20

The OP still hasn't managed to articulate what extra rights the RP should have, just that the NRP should somehow have less/none. I think the current system is pretty fair and reasonable, and possibly a bit biased in the RPs favour in some ways.

In real terms, my ex has pretty much zero rights over our children's lives. There's very little she can control (thankfully), and not without going to court to try and enforce it.

Theemeperorsnewclothes · 01/08/2024 23:48

Ottervision · 24/07/2024 21:04

No, i haven't misunderstood. They do have a responsibility to provide for their children. That's what the cms is for. And I know they're shit but they do exist. You cannot force someone to physically see or care for their children.

You don't want him to have any rights. But you want him to bring them up and provide for them. Which is it? You can't have both.

@Ottervision So NRP’s do have responsibility to provide but by your own admission CMS are shit, so, as the statistics tell us most often than not, do not provide, as they are supported in this by the very government organisation set up to financially maintain the welfare of the child. “You cannot force someone to physically see or care for their children” I take it we are talking predominately about NRP/fathers here? Because if the RP/mother did this they would be in court for neglect and their children put in care. “You don’t want him to have any rights. But you want him to bring them up and provide for them. Which is it? You can’t have both.” I think you answered your own question. This thread is in no way directed at all the good single dads out there. I’m sure they are confident they are doing their very best just like the majority of the resident parent mothers.

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TheOriginalEmu · 25/07/2024 23:51

Theemeperorsnewclothes · 24/07/2024 19:10

What evidence do you have of this? A mother really hated you more than the welfare of her children? And here lies the problem.

The evidence of watching them at work. My ex’s ex also was far more interested in hurting him than she was the welfare of her child. The evidence being disappearing with him to live with someone she met online and had never met in person before, who would lock my stepson in his room and not let him out for days. When we tracked them down he was 9 and weighed less than my then 3 year old, he had scabies and headlice and worms. He came to live with us at that point, but she cried domestic abuse, took him and disappeared again. Rinse and repeat with another man. Stepson came to us for good at that point. Her reason? She just didn’t want me to have him. Her own words. Without my ex’s parental rights we might never have found him.
your insistence that only female RP care about their kids is so short sighted and stupid.

Ottervision · 24/07/2024 21:05

Theemeperorsnewclothes · 24/07/2024 21:02

I completely agree. I think you have misunderstood. Most RP’s bend over backwards to maintain a relationship with the NRP’s. The NRP’s should also have a moral and legal responsibility to provide for their children. Sadly, the statistics tell us this is not the care, and the RP’s (resident mothers) are predominantly bringing these children up on their own.

And lol most rps bend over backwards to keep in touch? Do they?

Hotgirlwinter · 24/07/2024 21:04

I don’t disagree with you at all, I think that the main parent, which is usually a woman takes on the vast majority of responsibilities and therefore is probably best informed to make decisions in the best interest of the child,

But this has to be a case by case basis, it can’t be a blanket “mum has kids 60/40 so they get the final say on everything” because unfortunately there are mums who don’t act in the best interest of the child and there are dads who are mostly powerless to stop it being the the NRP so giving away any influence they may currently have would make it a whole lot worse for those children. I personally have witnessed years and years of attempted parental alienation for no other reason that power and control (and spite).

Youre not wrong OP generally, but it wouldn’t make sense for it to be a blanket approach.

Ottervision · 24/07/2024 21:04

Theemeperorsnewclothes · 24/07/2024 21:02

I completely agree. I think you have misunderstood. Most RP’s bend over backwards to maintain a relationship with the NRP’s. The NRP’s should also have a moral and legal responsibility to provide for their children. Sadly, the statistics tell us this is not the care, and the RP’s (resident mothers) are predominantly bringing these children up on their own.

No, i haven't misunderstood. They do have a responsibility to provide for their children. That's what the cms is for. And I know they're shit but they do exist. You cannot force someone to physically see or care for their children.

You don't want him to have any rights. But you want him to bring them up and provide for them. Which is it? You can't have both.

FrivolousKitchenRollUse · 24/07/2024 21:02

How would this work when "NRP" is such a broad phrase? Could be 99:1, could be 50:50?

Are there any statistics out there to indicate the average split across two actively involved parents?

What rights are you talking about specifically?

Theemeperorsnewclothes · 24/07/2024 21:02

Ottervision · 24/07/2024 20:57

Luckily no, but they're the child's rights not his. I think you have misunderstood. The children have a right to a relationship with the parents, not the other way around.

I completely agree. I think you have misunderstood. Most RP’s bend over backwards to maintain a relationship with the NRP’s. The NRP’s should also have a moral and legal responsibility to provide for their children. Sadly, the statistics tell us this is not the care, and the RP’s (resident mothers) are predominantly bringing these children up on their own.

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Ottervision · 24/07/2024 20:57

Theemeperorsnewclothes · 24/07/2024 20:56

I am therefore assuming you have never been in any tribunal involving your children.

Luckily no, but they're the child's rights not his. I think you have misunderstood. The children have a right to a relationship with the parents, not the other way around.

Theemeperorsnewclothes · 24/07/2024 20:56

Ottervision · 24/07/2024 20:53

And actually, what the legal system upholds is the child's rights. Which you'd know if you had any real understanding of this. Parents don't have rights.

I am therefore assuming you have never been in any tribunal involving your children.

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Ottervision · 24/07/2024 20:56

Theemeperorsnewclothes · 24/07/2024 20:54

Nope, it certainly was not a ‘choice’

Can you elaborate on that? Were you forced to have a child with this man?

Theemeperorsnewclothes · 24/07/2024 20:54

Ottervision · 24/07/2024 20:52

Presumably that was a choice you made?

Nope, it certainly was not a ‘choice’

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Ottervision · 24/07/2024 20:53

And actually, what the legal system upholds is the child's rights. Which you'd know if you had any real understanding of this. Parents don't have rights.

Ottervision · 24/07/2024 20:53

You don't get to write him out of your children's life because you now don't think he's enough?

Ottervision · 24/07/2024 20:52

Theemeperorsnewclothes · 24/07/2024 20:51

I had children with a father under the UK legal and political system that will uphold his rights but not enforce his responsibilities.

Presumably that was a choice you made?

Theemeperorsnewclothes · 24/07/2024 20:51

Ottervision · 24/07/2024 20:49

Safeguard the majority from....what?

The majority of NRPs are reasonable human beings, able to gave a conversation and gave input on decisions regarding their own children. Being a mother doesn't mean you need to be safeguarded from someone you chose to have children with.

Sure, for some people this will be the case. This is a minority and it's what courts are for. Your view is bizarre. Perhaps you should have chosen to have a child alone.

I had children with a father under the UK legal and political system that will uphold his rights but not enforce his responsibilities.

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HowardTJMoon · 24/07/2024 20:49

I joined mumsnet when I became full-time RP for my DCs. "By parents, for parents" and all that. Sadly my ex couldn't be relied upon to put our children's best interests first.

Trust me - your feelings about your ex in particular and male NRPs in general ooze out of every sentence.

Ottervision · 24/07/2024 20:49

Theemeperorsnewclothes · 24/07/2024 20:46

I completely agree. However we need to safeguard the majority. Just the same as any law or legislation. Most mothers are doing the absolute best for their children, and they should be supported in legislation.

Safeguard the majority from....what?

The majority of NRPs are reasonable human beings, able to gave a conversation and gave input on decisions regarding their own children. Being a mother doesn't mean you need to be safeguarded from someone you chose to have children with.

Sure, for some people this will be the case. This is a minority and it's what courts are for. Your view is bizarre. Perhaps you should have chosen to have a child alone.

Theemeperorsnewclothes · 24/07/2024 20:46

Ottervision · 24/07/2024 20:19

Why is it then that children need adopting when their mothers aren't able to look after them considering pregnancy gives you this wonderful superpower of doing no wrong?

Some dads are shit. I am fully aware. My own dad was shit. Very very shit. Some mums are shit also. Why is that so hard for you to believe? Not all women are wonderful mothers. I'm sorry, but they're not.

I completely agree. However we need to safeguard the majority. Just the same as any law or legislation. Most mothers are doing the absolute best for their children, and they should be supported in legislation.

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Theemeperorsnewclothes · 24/07/2024 20:41

HowardTJMoon · 24/07/2024 20:15

No, I don't think I need to add anything. You've already made it crystal clear that you despise your ex so much that you think male NRPs should have no say in their children's lives.

Have you considered getting help for your issues?

@HowardTJMoon have you ever questioned why you are trolling on a ‘mum’ platform as a male? I have never made it “crystal clear” that I despise my ex. I advocate for the child, and their well-being, always. Have you considered help for your issues?

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Ottervision · 24/07/2024 20:19

Theemeperorsnewclothes · 24/07/2024 20:05

Could you please put that rant in reverse. The RP knows their child on every level. They carried them, they loved and protected them before they were even born, they (in many cases) breast fed them and lost their own life and identity through this. Bottle fed mums did the same as they were the sole caregivers.

“You hate your ex so much that you think he shouldn't have any say over the big stuff either. And because you despise him so much, you think that not only should he not be allowed any involvement in these big decisions, no NRP should be allowed just in case they might remind you of your ex.”

I love my children and their well-being more than ex and future partner.

Why is it then that children need adopting when their mothers aren't able to look after them considering pregnancy gives you this wonderful superpower of doing no wrong?

Some dads are shit. I am fully aware. My own dad was shit. Very very shit. Some mums are shit also. Why is that so hard for you to believe? Not all women are wonderful mothers. I'm sorry, but they're not.

HowardTJMoon · 24/07/2024 20:15

No, I don't think I need to add anything. You've already made it crystal clear that you despise your ex so much that you think male NRPs should have no say in their children's lives.

Have you considered getting help for your issues?

Ottervision · 24/07/2024 20:15

Theemeperorsnewclothes · 24/07/2024 19:10

What evidence do you have of this? A mother really hated you more than the welfare of her children? And here lies the problem.

What evidence? Plenty. She assaulted dh in front of them several times. Taught them to tell me they hoped my unborn baby would die. She left them on my doorstep several times without any kind of prior warning. All 3 of her children (one not dhs) have been kicked out of her house more than once in their lives. It all happened. She's a vile human being and she doesn't give a shiny little shit about how much she's fucked them all up.

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