How can you tell if Americans are "poor"?

"2 bathrooms is pretty typical "

I know it's normal for MNers, but I didn't know anyone with two bathrooms growing up.
American teenagers also always had their own phones on TV and of course everything, houses, cars, appliances being bigger.

Just remember Fraiser and the 'working class' chair brought over by the policeman father to Fraisier's horror.

"Local accents are fading amongst younger middle class people. So a distinct regional accent in someone under 40 can be a class marker. In an older person it isn't: see Trump."

Trump's isn't very strong to my ears though.
Another example of the NY accent only heard by those of working-class origin is the film Working Girl. I think it's a bit exaggerated for effect there though.

"But back in the UK, no one would call other poor because of the lack of sporting activity in their life."

I don't totally agree with that. I don't think not exercising (my norm for much of my life) means you're necessarily poor, but I think people exercise more the higher up the class scale you go.

Also, if you are obviously foreign, people don't want to discuss politics or criticise the US to you. It was only after Americans got to know me or my DH that they would discuss it with us. It's a bit like family: you defend it to outsiders.

Local accents are fading amongst younger middle class people. So a distinct regional accent in someone under 40 can be a class marker. In an older person it isn't: see Trump. Or if you ever see old news clips from before 1990 or so you will notice how much stronger the accents are.

Mare of Easttown is interesting, we used to live not so far away. It does amp up the working-class aspect a little bit in my opinion. If you drive 5 or 10 minutes from where it's supposed to be set you're in some very posh areas.

Roseanne was definitely working/lower middle class, she worked in a factory and his business was construction. 2 bathrooms is pretty typical and I suspect the show set the 2nd up as an ensuite for set reasons. It's not a real house.

US Shameless was definitely not aspirational!

"I am really shocked to learn that it is unseemly to hang the washing out in USA."

Obviously, washing line in the garden is totally normal in the UK, but when you see photos of washing lines going from a building on one side of the street to a building on the other side, that does seem to evoke some kind of poverty, so I presume those are the connotations in the US.

Because cosmetic dentistry has been a thing there for a long time.

I noticed that Sex in the City is based in New York, but Steve is the only character to have a NY accent. The others are too posh for it, although Charlotte is the only one to be really upper class 'old money'.

"Roseanne was about WC Americans. "

Roseanne's husband had his own business, so wouldn't be considered wc by all classification systems. They had a variable income.
They also had an ensuite in the girls' bedroom and phones upstairs, which I was VERY impressed with growing up, but I think were normal in the US.

Still, watching from across the Atlantic, I could recognise the very ordinary type of sofa they had.

Back to TV shows: Mare of Easttown is an interesting one.

In the U.K., a woman with the job Kate Winslet had would be decidedly middle class. Senior detective, in a place a bit like Burnley (maybe?). She’d live in a nice, solidly built, quite large by UK standards, detached or semi-detached house. She’d run a good car, shop at Sainsbury’s or Tescos. Expect her kids to go to university. Have social standing and some connections.

But in her part of Pennsylvania, a state bordering relatively-wealthy New Jersey, ex-industrial, now still quite industrial but also has tourism and agriculture and manufacturing and some financial services, pretty thin on the ground in terms of fancy city-based neighborhoods but some quite lovely rural and semi-rural areas, she’s decidedly working class. Run down house in a not-so-nice area, working more hours than her UK counterpart would, probably earning less, far lower social standing.

Partly this is TV. Partly this is to do with entry requirements for police’s forces in each place. Partly she’s a mad lady with few social niceties about her. But the context is pretty representative I think.

@beryldaperil Speed walking = Poor? I do this everyday and thought i was quite.. well.. bougie .

Almost always. Some cities has laws against it.

its changing now though.

im in canada so only slightly different on this topic. Growing up you’d never put clothing out. It was unsightly. I live in a very nice area (cheaper street in the neighbourhood) and most people put clothing out. Next street over where houses cost an additional 100k? You never see it unless it’s pool towels.

Different country, but I used to live in Canada, and a poverty marker was to not do any sport at all. Speed walking was big, as it was the most basic sport that everyone could do. But back in the UK, no one would call other poor because of the lack of sporting activity in their life.

Agree @DdraigGoch European markers are soooo different to US markers of wealth. Same for north Asian, South Asian, West African vs East African markers of wealth. It can be fascinating.

Being slender and cycling can be a sign of wealth in Europe, and elsewhere it is a sign of poverty that you cannot afford a car or food.

I've visited the US may times, but never lived there. I do, however, have a brother who's lived there, in LA, for 25+ years. (Anything I say here is only a reflection of my experience. Please don't bash me if anything's inaccurate.)

He and his American wife divorced around 5 years ago.Their life was pretty middle class, but they had no savings to fall back on, having married and had a child late in life. Both parents have always worked full time, and their child was in a private school until the divorce.

He worked in film post-production. He's no longer working, as the effects of the writers' strike are still being felt. US welfare/benefits are very different to ours. Unemployment benefit was generous, but time-limited, to (I think) 6 months. After that, you have to work again to re-earn the entitlement. That hasn't been possible for him. The upshot of all this, is that he now lives in an RV (camper-van). His ex-wife and child live in a rented flat.

He has no health insurance, which is pretty scary in your 60s. He can't afford to visit a dentist, and has lost several teeth due to gum disease. He may be able to get help from a dental teaching hospital, but in the meantime he's unemployable in any customer facing role, as looks are so important and recruitment people won't even put him forward for interview. He has a an ok car, which he needs as he has a child to care for at weekends/school holidays, but the insurance for it is much, much higher than it would be here.

The saving grace is that he will be able to draw his state pension now, at 62, and it's around double what he'd get here, which really surprised me. (Apparently you only need to contribute for 10 years to get this, unlike the 40 years in the UK.) Once he has his pension he will be entitled to use some kind of Medicaid. In LA that pension won't go far, but if he moves he won't be able to see his child regularly.

If he lived in the UK he would probably still be unemployed, but he wouldn't have to live in an RV, as rent would be paid via benefits. He'd have free healthcare and would be able to access an NHS dentist (yes, I know that's hard in some areas).

Another signifier for me of money or lack of it is maternity leave. Whilst UK maternity leave isn't amazing, it's more generous than the US. My SIL went back to work less than 2 months after a C-section, even knowing that would be their only child. I'd guess having a reasonable amount of time off after a baby would show you have some money behind you.

I think life in the US can be wonderful if you're employed and/or have money. If not, it's a fast-track so some serious hardship. The gap between rich and poor is more obvious (to me) there than it is here.

Your experience matches my experience of the side of my family who are from the US and who I spend a lot of time with.

I’m also speaking from my own personal experience as someone who actually grew up there, live in the UK, and a citizen of both.

I will say it again, Americans do criticise our culture, make plenty of jokes, some likely in the tv shows that you find annoying and complain about our country’s problems. mathanxiety explained it better than I could.

Saying the pledge of allegiance means little to many of us other than knowing it like we do the national anthem. It’s more knowing it than actually pledging allegiance. You can go to any sports game and see people using the time during the national anthem to get snacks. I haven’t said it in years and had to recite it myself to see if I remember it. The last time I had to was elementary school because that was the only time it was recited. Schools here afaik in England do daily act of collective worship even though stats say religion is on the decline and many don’t even practice yet call themselves Christian so how is that much different?

It's been my observation over several decades living here that Americans tend to avoid politics and any topic that touches on politics in conversation unless they are sure they know their company well. Religion likewise.

This is my experience as well. And even among people we know well, we often avoid politics and religion. It's how I have remained on good terms with my siblings and their spouses all these years. I will discuss these subjects with the ones I know tend to agree with me, but politics especially is a "no-go" zone when we are all together. People might ask how can you be close to people without discussing such serious topics. And this is where sports, especially college football and especially the University of Georgia, is the tie that binds.

Your own ignorance is showing. How is that much different than here?

Plenty of people here don’t have passports, never left their own country or even county, vote against their own interests (Brexit, the conservatives), etc. There is welfare in the U.S. There is literally the term “going on welfare” there and food stamps.

Not everyone can afford a passport or to fly to Europe which even from New York City is 7.5 hours and that is just the East Coast. It takes my sister minimum 10 hrs to drive to our parents’ house there. The US is only a bit smaller than Europe and obviously you go in one country, it’s a different culture, it’s similar in the States just by moving through different States or even parts of States.

this took me a while...did you mean "safe to say"?

Unless Joe Biden agrees to stand down gracefully and the Democrats rustle up someone with broader appeal, I think the Republicans have the election in a bag. So said I yesterday afternoon.... and here we are!

I also agree that @masomenos lengthy explanation of why Trump appeals to blue collar Americans. Even though we (and probably they) know it's all a con.

To be fair....
Britain is on the brink of becoming the first Islamist nuclear power (according to certain Americans) so the generalisations go both ways.

Malcolm in the Middle and the middle both present "ordinary" Americans in a fairly non-aspirational/relatable way. I've no idea if its that realistic but it feels realistic.

The electoral college is one thing the country does correctly. I can't see it going away in the next many years because the Senators of the "fly-over" states want to have a voice and not give all the power to NYC, Chicago and parts of CA.
ALL states deserve representation.

I find it quite amusing. The stereotypes are cracking me up. A country of 330+ million people, and describe in one hundred words or less. 😆😉