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How can you tell if Americans are "poor"?

434 replies

flavourable · 20/07/2024 14:15

Like most of us I watch quite a bit of US drama and box sets but remain baffled about the characters based on things like the house they live in etc...

Can American audiences tell that someone is poor or rich (or in between) based on things such as house size, style of house and other things that are part of TV series?

I know (well think I do so not assuming - please correct if wrong!) that middle and working class may mean different things to UK - but can US viewers pick up more based on cultural norms and things that may need explaining to non-American audiences?

An example is I watched some episodes of True Detective and thought the house was lovely and spacious but everything else in the plot pointed to the fact that this was a "poor rundown neighbourhood with substance issues etc..."

Are there any rules of thumb? Do American audiences get confused my things like this when watching UK or European dramas?

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 20/07/2024 20:27

LadeOde · 20/07/2024 20:01

@masomenos Costco and Lidl is where poor people shop? really Shock

It's more like Walmart. It's often the only game in town, especially in rural areas.

Walmart isn't so bad. It's one-stop shopping for everything you could conceivably need.

mathanxiety · 20/07/2024 20:21

anon4net · 20/07/2024 18:35

In America:

[Based on my experience working in healthcare...]

  • Teeth (sometimes, definitely more so in the southern states)
  • Hair (sometimes)
  • Furniture
  • Speech - grammar with speech in particular
  • Access to therapies for children like speech therapy
  • Many poor Americans have what we'd consider a need for speech therapy
  • Whether they have access to their own laundry or use a laundry-mat (NYC and urban centres that are $ are probably an exception to this!)
  • Type of childcare they can access (neighbourhood lady with no education, taking 6+++ kids in from locals for pittance, vs more standardized daycare, nanny, childminder etc.)
  • On medicaid/have no insurance (thus impacting which hospitals/clinics etc they go to)
  • Whether there's higher education among parents/grandparents
  • Access to education outside of high school - is military the only option
  • Military recruitment in their local malls/shops/schools - they actively target low income communities - kids start talking to the recruiters at a very young age...
  • Are more likely to vote Republican
  • Have children young
  • Typically are very ill before they access health care (later stages of a disease etc.) due to worry about costs or being unable to get into free clinics!
  • Often believe charity/churches should play more of a role in helping people than the government should

Personally

I know two poorer American family through a volunteer project. You'd never ever know it from their blog/facebook/instagram. However, they...

  • Live in basement apartments with 3+ kids and if they can will have many more children - there is no state benefit per child there, so no real incentive in that regard. Neither family is on welfare/food stamps.
  • Have no insurance/rely on state for any health care (yet vote Republican and don't want universal health care believing they will be like Russia in it's hardest years - lining up for bread, freezing to death...!)
  • Husbands work insane hours (6 days week x 12+ hr days, and have side gigs - extra work after Church etc on their day off, helping build things, work Friday nights and Saturday nights etc.)
  • Savings are wiped out even with a 'minor' bill like a $500 car repair
  • Plans for sons is military after high school. One's son just accepted an entry into the navy (age 18).
  • They have big dreams and post a lot of what I'd call aesthetic content - you'd never ever know they live in basement apartments. They have photos of feet at the beach, in linens twirling in the grass etc., books etc. Poverty is very very very hidden. Their accounts are like dreams. They look like the wealthy accounts with hundreds of thousands of followers who do the same. yet clearly very very different.
  • Very traditional roles for mothers/fathers. Neither believe women should work ever outside the home. One is 'allowed' do to some pyramid selling of stuff. So even though for one, husbands shift is 5 am to 5 pm and there's several late night shops (food) she could work at say 7-10 a couple nights/week and some women in their community do, they won't because they must be content in all things and her role is at home.
  • Their hopes and dreams for their children don't include education. It's faith, same faith partners (even from a young age they are praying for future wives/husbands) and being blessed by God with bounty/wealth/richness
  • Children have no hobbies, extra curriculars etc. Not even the kids in high school
  • Very limited contact with others. Everything costs money and they are 'content to be at home'
  • Children/parents only receive emergency dental care, no braces etc.
  • They try as many natural 'healers' before state medicine (herbs, oils etc)
  • Don't vaccinate
  • Minimal, if any real news - it's very much a lack of awareness life could be better
  • They believe one day they will be rich and yet another reason there for not supporting socialist ideals.
  • They think Bernie Sanders is the root of all evil [roll eyes - I love the guy]

It's was eye opening to say the least...

Edited to add - housesize is very dependent on state. I know people who were poor in very very small housing en par with the UK and others in different states in bigger housing but still many other indicators of poverty.

Edited

A PP thinks this is ridiculous, but it's actually very realistic as far as my observations go.

The long, cold hand of the prosperity gospel has a grip on a big section of the population, especially in the south and parts of the Union that are rural. It begets magical thinking, and fundamentalist religious beliefs make for some interesting ideas around gender roles. The Red Peril is very much alive and kicking in their minds.

Military recruitment has its plusses and minuses. On the one hand it is exploitative, and on the other, it genuinely offers a respectable career, technical training, references, often preferential employment opportunities in state services including state police after you leave the services, and the VA health, education, and retirement benefits are huge.

In addition, joining ROTC (Reserve Officer Training Corps) means you get through university for free with a certain number of years of service after graduation and commitment to being an active reservist. You graduate university and get a commission as a Lieutenant on the same day.

saltinesandcoffeecups · 20/07/2024 20:16

MyblackVWTiguan · 20/07/2024 20:08

@saltinesandcoffeecups

I have one in my hall closet and a few in my basement I can send one over if I ever get around to replacing them 🤷‍♀️.

Or you can buy one on Amazon 🙂

I stand corrected then (and obviously behind the times).😁👍🏻😁

However, I’d prefer to dress as if I’d come out of the toddler’s dressing up box in winter w/o light than order from Amazon. I can’t claim never to have used Amazon but putting money thru to Bezos (and ergo Trump) is very good reason for avoiding Amazon.

See: It’s Ok to hate Capitalism by Bernie Sanders, bought in Waterstones, I hasten add.

I don’t think Bezos has donated to Trump, in case that relieves yourself from Amazon guilt.

LivininAmerica · 20/07/2024 20:08

A lot of anon4net’s post is very accurate in my experience too.

I work in a public-facing organization. Our location means we cover some of the wealthiest areas of the city, and some of the poorest. It’s also a very military town (several bases in the vicinity), very religious, and very Republican. I’ve encountered people who refuse to speak to me again after I said I didn’t attend church. There is a tendency towards larger families, starting them young, mothers not working or socializing outside their church, or military cohort. A lot of the husbands are officers in the military. In these areas, education is expected (but teachers are expected to live on thin air!) and the military is a choice.

The poorer areas in this city tend to have more complicated family setups, broken pavements, lots of vape shops, run down properties. There are some I would not drive through during the day, never mind at night, because of the violence. For many young people the military is their only escape route. The people I see in work from these communities often have dreadful teeth, unkempt, sometimes mental health issues. They are also frequently the kindest people I deal with.

MyblackVWTiguan · 20/07/2024 20:08

@saltinesandcoffeecups

I have one in my hall closet and a few in my basement I can send one over if I ever get around to replacing them 🤷‍♀️.

Or you can buy one on Amazon 🙂

I stand corrected then (and obviously behind the times).😁👍🏻😁

However, I’d prefer to dress as if I’d come out of the toddler’s dressing up box in winter w/o light than order from Amazon. I can’t claim never to have used Amazon but putting money thru to Bezos (and ergo Trump) is very good reason for avoiding Amazon.

See: It’s Ok to hate Capitalism by Bernie Sanders, bought in Waterstones, I hasten add.

TakemedowntoPotatoCity · 20/07/2024 20:04

They live on the wrong side of 8 Mile

saltinesandcoffeecups · 20/07/2024 20:03

Vergus · 20/07/2024 19:54

I’m still hung up (excuse the pun) on the washing issue. Are you allowed to hang your washing outside if it’s in the back garden so not visible to passers-by?

In some places no. HOAs are pretty famous for this but if hanging laundry is a must have you’re not going to buy a house there. About 30% of Americans live in an HOA.

A lot of HOAs also have rules about fence height so it would most likely be visible to someone.

Again hanging laundry is just not really on a lot of people’s radar. I hang some stuff but I have a couple of lines in the basement where my washer and dryer are, in the winter it dries super quick because of how warm and dry it is. In the summer it takes a bit longer but it’s not a big deal.

For me it would be more of a pain in the ass to schlep it out to the backyard hang it and bring it in.

I don’t like the goofy rules of HOAs so would never buy a house with one. But if you do you are agreeing to their rules.

InternationalVelveteen · 20/07/2024 20:02

Vergus · 20/07/2024 19:54

I’m still hung up (excuse the pun) on the washing issue. Are you allowed to hang your washing outside if it’s in the back garden so not visible to passers-by?

It was fine anywhere I have ever lived, which includes both coasts, the mid-west, and the south. But I have never lived anywhere with an HOA that restricts such things.

LadeOde · 20/07/2024 20:01

@masomenos Costco and Lidl is where poor people shop? really Shock

randoname · 20/07/2024 20:00

Bjorkdidit · 20/07/2024 16:21

Surely people don't adhere to that anymore?

I'd expect people to be more judged and looked down on for using a dryer in good weather than hanging washing out.

I would hang my washing out with pride and take it to the highest court in the land for my right to do so.

Tumble dryers ruin clothes and waste electricity, there's just no need if you have outside space and dry weather.

You’d think wouldn’t you.
But it’s really ingrained. I stayed on a Buddhist retreat in the US where chores were shared.
Everything was tumble dried. In the summer. 🤦🏻‍♀️

YankTank · 20/07/2024 19:55

anon4net · 20/07/2024 18:42

@saltinesandcoffeecups - I hesitated to post these things. The top are very much my experience working in health care. The bottom are what I think was actually the opposite of what people often assume.

The fact is military recruitment, lack of access to health care etc etc etc is a staple of poverty in the US.

The military recruitment offices inside shopping malls is definitely a thing—shops close down and the Army (or Air Force, Navy, or Marines) rents out the vacant shop to become a recruitment centre. Never in an affluent area.

Pussycat22 · 20/07/2024 19:54

lljkk, and we all knew the Queen!!

Vergus · 20/07/2024 19:54

I’m still hung up (excuse the pun) on the washing issue. Are you allowed to hang your washing outside if it’s in the back garden so not visible to passers-by?

Whenwillitgetwarm · 20/07/2024 19:52

StrictlyAFemaleFemale · 20/07/2024 14:52

Washing hanging outside is code for poor.

😮

mathanxiety · 20/07/2024 19:47

Vergus · 20/07/2024 17:24

What is going on with the not drying washing outside? Why not?

Climate - laundry would freeze solid on a line all wi ter where I live, and my fingers would freeze putting it out and taking it in again.
Living in apartments.
Allergies - pollen isn't a friend to all.
Small back yards, which are used for outdoor dining and relaxing, not easy with sheets flapping in your face.
Backyards used for BBQing and sitting around firepit with neighbours/ friends - laundry would smell of smoke and grilled chicken.
Convenience of a dryer - you can get laundry washed, dried, folded (rarely ironed thanks to dryers) and put away with no delay.
Washing machine in basement, necessitating schlepping wet washing up a flight of stairs and outside.
Association of laundry drying outdoors (and everyone seeing each other's unmentionables week in and week out) with tenement life and the horrors of life in the slums before WW2.

DiamondTriangle · 20/07/2024 19:44

@SprigatitoYouAndIKnow

In your case fair enough . But in a lot of cases there is no excuse not to put washing out especially on a hot day .

InternationalVelveteen · 20/07/2024 19:35

I can't think of a single popular TV show that accurately represents the working class in the US. Even the middle class (in the American sense) is usually presented in an aspirational rather than a realistic way.

saltinesandcoffeecups · 20/07/2024 19:31

sleepwouldbenice · 20/07/2024 19:24

I was always amazed about the size of their house in Roseanne

That was a pretty typical house. Mine is 1550sqft/144 sqm on a .25 acre/1000sqm lot. 3 bed/2 bath.

Our lot is bigger than most in the area but not considered huge.

mathanxiety · 20/07/2024 19:30

Overweight older women with scraped back long hair tied in a pony tail, several tattoos, smoking, wearing cheap fashions/ footwear - sign of poverty.
For younger women, cheap fashions/ footwear, smoking, overweight/ obese.
Beer guts.
Hard facial expressions.

Tattoos are not a sign of poverty on their own.

Men - overweight, beer guts, wife beater shirts, consuming interest in cars, Nascar, WWF, combat 'sports' like mixed martial arts, machismo in general. Smoke, chew tobacco, weed before it was legal.

In Appalachia, skinny limbs and protruding bellies are a sign of poverty.

Neighborhoods - in the poorest, there's neglected housing (peeling paint, gutters in disrepair, unfashionable colours used for house exterior and trim, amateur repairs visible), litter, graffiti, chain link fences around front gardens, metal security bars across windows, metal bar security doors outside front doors, interiors cluttered, dogs chained up outside, too many pets inside, unkempt or minimally maintained gardens, paved-over gardens, fake turf, streets not maintained well, curbs crumbling, weeds poking through cracks in the sidewalk, broken glass on sidewalks, empty lots from the riots of the late 60s and subsequent decay. Lots of corner liquor / convenience stores. Children out with a parent and teens out on their own at all hours of the night, crowds gathered around liquor stores seemingly all night, or sitting out on stoops. Speed bumps everywhere. In rural areas, old fridges, ovens, sofas, junk cars all over the lot. House in need of repair.

Middling / somewhat struggling neighborhoods can look neat but you'll find more obvious consciousness of security than you'll see in affluent neighborhoods (signs declaring a neighborhood watch area, alarm systems very much in view) not much money spent on landscaping, and deferred maintenance to homes (maybe needing a paint job).

Attitudes - not many avid readers among the very poor, sometimes resistant to changing diet or exercise habits, beliefs around causes of diabetes and heart disease that indicate a serious lack of education in the area of nutrition and basic biology, seldom travel far from where they were born and raised.

Interiors - often very basic, cheap furniture, and maybe a bit shabby around the edges despite efforts to make homes look affluent in the form of very tailored curtains in the living room, fashionable knick knacks amd cheap, fashionable art. Usually very clean except in the case of dire poverty (look up videos of homes children are being removed from for examples of really bad living conditions that can go along with poverty/ substance abuse).

saltinesandcoffeecups · 20/07/2024 19:24

MyblackVWTiguan · 20/07/2024 19:16

@TemuSpecialBuy

I was baffled because they had two, TWO?!? bathrooms the girls shares a jack and Jill en-suite. I could only dream of such decadence 😅😅😅

I’ve always admired Tony Manalo’s (Saturday Night Fever) closet having an internal pull string light. I’m still waiting for that to be a thing here 😁😁😁.

I have one in my hall closet and a few in my basement I can send one over if I ever get around to replacing them 🤷‍♀️.

Or you can buy one on Amazon 🙂

sleepwouldbenice · 20/07/2024 19:24

lljkk · 20/07/2024 14:24

Some Americans think British culture is all Cambridge, Sherlock Holmes & afternoon tea.

Roseanne was about WC Americans. So is The Simpsons.

I was always amazed about the size of their house in Roseanne

MyblackVWTiguan · 20/07/2024 19:16

@TemuSpecialBuy

I was baffled because they had two, TWO?!? bathrooms the girls shares a jack and Jill en-suite. I could only dream of such decadence 😅😅😅

I’ve always admired Tony Manalo’s (Saturday Night Fever) closet having an internal pull string light. I’m still waiting for that to be a thing here 😁😁😁.

saltinesandcoffeecups · 20/07/2024 19:15

Has anyone seen Mike and Molly? I think that’s a fairly realistic show as it relates to middle class.

mondaytosunday · 20/07/2024 19:14

Of course. More US shows seem to feature well off people - more Dallas than East Enders. A few working class shows (Rosanne as mentioned, All in the Family etc). Shows like Friends they explained the hugely spacious flat by saying it was rent controlled, as no way a chef and a waitress could afford anything like that. Some other shows it's just ridiculous the property some if the people live in.
But most sitcoms/shows that showed home life were fairly well off suburbia. Plus some areas are far cheaper than others! Add to it that housing is a lot newer (people are less enamoured with period houses).
If you are talking about the first series of True Detective - Louisiana is not the most upmarket place by a country mile. Poverty rates are the second highest in the nation.

Luckypinkduck · 20/07/2024 19:09

Is Jane the virgin a realistic view of class (I know it's bonkers and not realistic in most ways but it seemed to show a different lifestyle than other American TV shows).
The house is still big in UK terms but one bathroom etc.

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