How can you tell if Americans are "poor"?

I do cringe at the stereotypes of drinking in the middle of the day and not keeping up the garden. Yes, a lot of people like that will be poor, but most poor people work, often quite hard, as long as there are jobs to be had. In the very poorest areas like the Mississippi Delta or rural Appalachia, the problem is a lack of jobs to get.

Roseanne's house was realistic I would say, given its setting (Lanford was based on Rockford). The Bundys less so but remember it was nearly 40 years ago and property was much much cheaper relative to income.

A show like My 600lb Life does show genuinely poor people, but that kind of exploitation reality TV also looks for the most shocking examples, the sort of people who put Mountain Dew in their kids' baby bottles.

Almost everyone in the US identifies as "middle class," which doesn't mean what it does in the UK. The self-identified middle class in the US includes people barely making ends meet as well as professionals living an extremely comfortable lifestyle.

This is a very accurate statement. I think one of the main misunderstandings by British people about the class structure in the US is that working class and middle class in the US are not mutually exclusive. I remember a thread on MN where a poster was talking about the sitcom Frasier and saying that Frasier and Niles were middle class because they were doctors and that their father Martin was working class because he was a policeman. Wrong. All three men were middle class.

However, discussions of middle class in the US do often separate groups into lower middle class, middle middle class, and upper middle class. Income is a major determinant of which group a person falls into.

That is great. My parents and grandparents are like yours, you describe it well.

But they are certainly not representatives of America. It’s a different picture being pumped out to us, how America is the greatest country on earth. And we, still, can see that it is quite obviously not.

Oh yes. My train ride in Atlanta was perfectly fine and pleasant, but my 11pm bus ride along Market Street in San Francisco was eye opening.

My American grandparents were poor. Neither of them finished high school. My grandmother was 16 when she got married. They were the finest people you could imagine. Despite his lack of formal education, my grandfather read widely and was always writing letters to the editor of the local newspaper about issues he was passionate about. My grandmother was one of the most intelligent people you could imagine. She was a brilliant photographer and gardener. They were not religious or politically conservative. Their appearance wasn't unusual in any way. They certainly didn't wear the clothing described in some posts, they just wore ordinary clothes. I could go on. But the point is that I simply do not recognize either of them in many of the posts on this thread.

But why is that the side of America that is shown to the rest of us. I mean, even we know that most Americans don’t believe it. So in that way it is so bizarre, if it doesn’t represent the people.

I’m not from the UK and I do agree that some people on MN turn very hostile when they find out. Covid really highlighted it, when the British were in lockdown and we weren’t. Our country had a different approach. Like it’s a competition, instead of thinking we can learn from each other. It’s not a competition.

Accent, teeth, clothes, weight, address, hobbies, education, same as in the UK. Cars not so much.

I googled 'wife eater' and apparently there's a professional wrestler who calls himself that!

Thank you for proving my point. I know very few Americans who actually believe the nonsense about "the greatest country in the world." To suggest that all Americans believe that is a silly, ridiculous stereotype. Of course, some people do. But you'll find that everywhere. You need look no further than MN to find many people who are convinced that the UK is far superior to anywhere else in the world.

However I can remember watching it in the early (I think?) 90s and being in awe of how huge their house was.

Really? I thought it was very realistic. The front door opened into the living room and the kitchen was behind it. a bedroom for the parents downstairs and 2 bedrooms upstairs. No big fitted kitchen. A shared bathroom. The stairs went straight from the living room. Decor was spot on. Roseanne in general was very authentic - the kinds of jobs they had, the worries they had, the scene where she is taking Darlene to buy for a home economics class and she teaches her that to make meatloaf you use half meat, half cereal.

Hanging out washing where I live signifies that you are environmentally aware - not poor.

I don't shop at Walmart but Walmart sells more organic food than Whole Foods as far as I know.

If americans didn't criticize the USA, I wouldn't have had many conversations over the past few years. Try posting a criticism of the UK on this site and see how receptive people are to that - I've seen it play out.

@anon4net is so far from accurate it's laughable. The poor tend to vote Republican? I think not.

If anyone is looking for a fictional depiction of rural poverty in the US, I would recommend Winter's Bone. The details are quite accurate. It's based on an excellent novel too.

But you could do this about every country on this planet. But not many other countries, with so many fundamental problems, claim to be the greatest country on earth tbf. We can all see that there is no number one country, we’re in this together. But not America. They are the greatest. It’s so utterly bizarre to the rest of us, that we’d be excused to joke a bit about it.

😂😂😂 so not true!

A lot of these posts do make me want to laugh. I was poor in America for many, many years but some how do not fall into most of the descriptions I've seen on here of a poor American. But then again my father was a high school dropout who worked his whole life in a Paper Mill and when he died we discovered he was worth A LOT of money. So he doesnt fit the description of a rich American either. You cant always tell who has money and who doesnt.

Some of the stereotypes on this thread make me want to bang my head against the wall. They are so insulting and inaccurate. As I wrote above, of course there are some posts that paint an accurate picture of (some members of) the working class and the underclass. But honestly, I really wish that more people would look beyond cheap, erroneous stereotypes. I could write the same sort of lazy, ridiculous post about the UK, and I guarantee that MNers would react with horror. But they are perfectly happy to perpetuate all sorts of nonsense about the US.

'Twas ever thus on MN, alas.

I’m thinking the Glossner’s, but could be wrong! She probably didn’t hang any washing out, that’s why Diaper kept wearing diapers..

Roseanne could be realistic. A working class family in rurualish Illinois could probably get a house like that (I think Ohio would have been MORE realistic though). As for Al Bundy, no shoe salesman (and Peg did not work) could afford a house like that in the Chicago suburbs (which is also Illinois).

I shop at Walmart, and I have umpteen other options. I know quite a few people who have never darkened the doors of my local Walmart all the same.

I've shopped in rural and semi rural Walmarts too and found them perfectly fine and full of farming families or the rural poor piling their trollies high.

DS lives temporarily in an area where a Walmart 45 minutes away by car is his only option for a huge selection of fruits and veg, various brands of coffee and teas, various healthy bread, rice, pasta, and lean meat and fish, and a great many other items that he stocks up on for his healthy diet that are not available closer to his abode.

The lack of available healthy food locally isn't the only factor causing the local population to have high rates of heart disease and diabetes - there are many people who believe steering clear of coke and other brown or dark colored sodas is the key to avoiding diabetes, and poison like Sprite or Mountain Dew is healthy. They pooh pooh advice on smoking and exposure to secondhand smoke. Addiction to painkillers and meth is rampant. Everyone drives, and most men are dab hands at fixing or maintaining their own cars.

And there is a strong sense of fatalism, a lack of any sense of empowerment to effect change (in personal health or family fortunes) along with a suspicion that that would be going against a force nobody has any business going against.

amp.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jun/17/donald-trump-jeff-bezos-amazon-washington-post-power-money

Yes, Roseanne immediately came to my mind.

They are working class Americans.

However I can remember watching it in the early (I think?) 90s and being in awe of how huge their house was.

Obviously, due to North America being so much later than Britain, land was not at a premium, meaning that relatively "poor" people could actually own quite a big house.

Having grown up in a tiny miners cottage I found that really jarring, as otherwise, I think our economic position was fairly similar to the Connors. But that huge house made a massive difference.

We are all used to seeing that on American tv now, but back then it did stand out.

Likewise, Al Bundy.

another thing you need to understand about USA is that the majority of its citizens believe the USA is the greatest country in the world, they do not criticise or knock it, even the ones that don’t like the current government will still not criticise USA overall. They aren’t great at having it pointed out that there are kinder socaieties in Europe, that gun control is possible etc etc. so agian, TV is not made to show the down sides of USA and that includes portrayal of abject poverty unless it has a happy ending or is a documentary by left leaning journalists

I completely disagree with this. I would separate its people from its media. The media may have you believe that, but many Americans constantly complain about the state of their country and don’t see it as the greatest country in the world. They know that other countries have it better than them. It is something that is constantly brought up and has been spoken about for years regardless who is in office.

Also, the very poorest in the US get Medicaid (free healthcare). It is the band of income just above that that struggles the most.

What my colleagues in public health see (working in public health) is that in our area people have physical access to food but there are other issues impacting their ability to have a healthy diet such as money and time. Chronic stress from poverty and racism is also significant.

Affluent working class does exist in the USA, it's just not talked about so much. In fact the class divide for politics is education level not income. Think people who have worked their way up in a trade and now own the business: plumbing, construction.

According to NY Times in 2018 (admittedly not current political run), Bezos donated to the Republican Party but yes I’m aware that Trump has been derogatory about Bezos (Bozos?)

But yes, I perhaps need to to a proper news catch up

The middle is my favourite TV show. Can you remember when hanging washing outside was mentioned in the show? I usually remember scenes like that but I can't remember anything about outside laundry. Lots of memories of scenes with Frankie emptying the tumble dryer but I can't remember anything about hanging out washing. Was it a Glossner story?