To think my DD17 is overthinking her bf's porn watching

@Megifer To clarify, he'd be the one ending the family.

What? So if he viewed porn, he would go to you afterwards and say the relationship is over..?

Come to think of it i'm not sure he could anyway if he wanted to 🤣 he couldn't use his phone for it, he doesnt have a tablet, no laptop, can't use the kids ipad, can't use mine......

He owns a dumb phone?

And there's no possibility then that he's looking at dirty magazines? You know, what all men did before internet access was ubiquitous?

This argument is a dead end. You could say the same about cheating on a one night stands. My DP has had opportunity for one night stands (he's spent nights away drinking with friends) and has incentive to lie if he'd done this (I would break up with him). So what? Those things together aren't evidence that he's ever done this. Same with porn. I get to know a man, I get to know his values. Usually I get to know a man as friends first, and then progress to dating and then to relationship. I ask the question about porn very very early on. Perhaps they lie, and never come clean. It's possible, but the possibility isn't evidence that they in fact do it.

(This is probably TMI so stop reading if you don't want this detail about an ex's sex life, but I negotiated with one ex him watching nonviolent animated porn - so no actresses involved at all - fit with both of our values).

@CurlewKate How do you know which porn is created by exploited, coerced women and which isn't?

I don't believe there is any way to guarantee that 100%. Same for the clothes I buy and electronics I use.

@ColinMyWifeBridgerton I don't know. I would have to assume that a man who was clearly told that you're anti-porn but carried on a relationship and carried on concealing a porn habit, and lying about it, doesn't really love you. A woman in that predicament has been deceived massively. I'd hate to think this of a partner, and to an extent have no choice but hope my ability to read character would weed someone so deceptive and dishonest out. But I don't know. I'm certainly not about to go through anyone's search history to find out.

As I've said though, there is clearly an incentive for men in relationships with anti-porn women to lie about their porn use.

Why would a man risk a relationship and family, and be stuck being single with no partner at all, over something like porn use? It would be easiest for those men to lie.

@shuggles "Outside of women who are physically forced and coerced into pornography, there is nothing to force women to do porn."

How do you know which porn is created by exploited, coerced women and which isn't?

To clarify, he'd be the one ending the family.

No there isn't the slightest possibility. Won't go into detail why, but there's not.

Come to think of it i'm not sure he could anyway if he wanted to 🤣 he couldn't use his phone for it, he doesnt have a tablet, no laptop, can't use the kids ipad, can't use mine......

@OptimismvsRealism "Sorry but the male sex drive is why our species exists. You can't evangelise it out of existence"

And male sex drive=watching porn?

How did we manage to populate the world before 1970?

@ColinMyWifeBridgerton Yeah, there you have it. It all comes down to this. What is "really exquisitely nice" for men in a sexual context trumps the safety and dignity of women, every time.

What men want does not trump the safety and dignity of women.

Outside of women who are physically forced and coerced into pornography, there is nothing to force women to do porn. Money is not an excuse, because men in poverty don't have the option of doing porn and they manage to get by.

Amazing. Didn't realise our species only dates back to 1907.

Yeah, some men will say those things almost because they are overcompensating for how much they hate women. I've met both obnoxious and decent men who describe themselves as feminists.

I don't know. I would have to assume that a man who was clearly told that you're anti-porn but carried on a relationship and carried on concealing a porn habit, and lying about it, doesn't really love you. A woman in that predicament has been deceived massively. I'd hate to think this of a partner, and to an extent have no choice but hope my ability to read character would weed someone so deceptive and dishonest out. But I don't know. I'm certainly not about to go through anyone's search history to find out.

What this doesn't mean, though, is that I need to accept an open porn user. All I can do is lay my cards on the table and hope that I'm not a victim of systematic deception. The possibility that I am being deceived in this way doesn't mean that I should revisit my views on porn.

Ok that is super odd

@Megifer Because I know him and his views about porn and similar connected issues. And, not that this is a main factor I don't think (will say I'm not 100% on this) he knows if he ever did we're done, and I doubt he'd risk breaking his family up for a quick wank.

Given that he knows that you would end the family if he used porn, you don't think there's even the slightest possibility that he lies about porn and similar connected issues to ensure that you won't end the relationship?

I mean, it's quite clear here that there would be an incentive for him to lie, right?

I dont have a husband.

I'd break up with my partner yes. Absolutely.

I think porn is amazing for women too. I don't really believe women who say they don't like it - there's something for everyone. But we are talking about whether it's realistic that men don't like it. It isn't.

... You'd divorce your husband for watching porn?

What about the female sex drive? I mean they have to usually agree with it….

Because I know him and his views about porn and similar connected issues. And, not that this is a main factor I don't think (will say I'm not 100% on this) he knows if he ever did we're done, and I doubt he'd risk breaking his family up for a quick wank.

I suspect with dp it's more of a principal thing though for sure, connected to family history stuff, although he's never outright said that's the reason 😔

Sorry but the male sex drive is why our species exists. You can't evangelise it out of existence

Plus as above many women like it too

Yeah, there you have it. It all comes down to this. What is "really exquisitely nice" for men in a sexual context trumps the safety and dignity of women, every time. It even trumps the wishes of the women who they have sex with and who they claim to love, if you're to believe the posters on here who say that all men do it and lie about it (although note, I don't think we should believe those posters). In this case, it trumps the wishes that a 17 year old girl has for her relationships.

@ColinMyWifeBridgerton A relationship takes trust. Of course I don't monitor partners. It's possible that they watch porn, cheat, take cocaine and have a secret second family.

Cheating, cocaine, and a secret second family are difficult to hide, and the truth will often come out. It's virtually impossible to identify if someone uses porn if they make even the smallest efforts to conceal it.

It's funny to me to see "progressive" and "Feminist" used as a an insult. God forbid a man wants me to have equal rights, eww!

I was talking specifically about men who brand themselves with those labels, but it often turns out that they just adopt those labels because they think women will like them. The creepiest, weirdest, and most horrible men I've met have been those the progressive feminist types. Not because of those labels, because they always end up being the men who are self-centred, obnoxious, horrible to their partners, etc. (If these are the type of men that women opt for these days, it would certainly explain why so many women on mumsnet have issues with abusive, controlling, narcassistic and cheating partners).

I think that’s a very sad view, to be honest. My DS 24 made a comment a while ago about ‘saddos watching porn’ - and I’ve heard similar from students. I’m sure many blokes watch porn but not all do- and I think many are aware of how exploitative it is. My DH loves a pub crawl stag do- but neither his nor any of the ones he went on ended up in a strip club. They ended up in a curry house.

Again, why does that require porn?

Because looking at loads of gorgeous women fucking is really exquisitely nice for them in a way that is hardwired into them

Or men - don't want to be heteronormative about it