No more Protest

XChrome · Today 04:52
Punishing non-violent protesters criminally is what fascists do.

Communists also, but maybe it’s ok when they do it.

Well yes, this is why the Judge called them fanatics.
I’ve seen this over and over again from ‘protestors’. Exactly the same rhetoric. They decide they are fighting Nazis and genocide ( they can fit this into any cause, they are quite flexible like this), and then whatever they do is justified, because ‘Nazis’.

People with this mentality are dangerous and escalating in their actions, like JSO have proved. They wanted a worst outcome, more risk to life, and were only prevented by a tip off. They were already on bail and a light sentence or financial penalty as others have argued for on this thread, would just have made them feel emboldened to keep on escalating. The Judge was quite right that a deterrent sentence was needed.

The woman who missed a cancer appointment might well be feeling the effects

They’ve not been jailed for protesting. Read the Judgement.

Have you read the judges comments by posted above by ZoeyBarlett? Do you realise as bad as the disruption was, the protestors intended it to be far, far worse? That it only wasn’t as an undercover reporter tipped off the police? That the risk to life and harm caused would have been far worse if the ‘protestors’ had succeeded in their intention? That all were on bail for other offenses?

You seem to be if the same mind of the protestors. That you can bat away the consequences on others ( as long as they are not one of your own, of course). I agree with the Judge that this is an attitude of appalling disregard for other people.

This is nothing like organized legal events like football matches which are well planned and people can organise around. This was an illegal action no one could plan to avoid. It’s dishonest arguing to compare the two.

And no, you get to declare that the people affected won’t be affected long term. My FIL would have been utterly broken if he’d missed his wife’s funeral. Your dismissal was f things like this shows a really callous disregard for others

12 HK student protestors got 6 years for storming a Government building.... we gave protestors 5 years for stopping traffic, i wonder what the uk courts would give protestors who stormed Parliament... supported whole heartedly by many of the public.

Protestors in HK who did not take part in violence or organisation, were not usually prosecuted.

Either way, the UN has condemned Russia, China and now the UK for how it prosecutes protestors.

Jeez, what a self-regarding wanker he is.

If you actually read what Mr Hallam says, he specifically says this isn’t about the right to protest but acts of war. It’s pretty unpleasant, once you investigate a bit. I’m quite surprised

That is a bit ridiculous. The JSO activists weren’t arrested for voicing opinions or just sitting in Red Square with placards.

Its a grim world when we ignore totally what the UN says.

Sending people to jail for many years for protesting is what we've come to expect from Russia or China... can add the UK now.

I don’t think we should continue as normal, I think we need to initiate realistic and honest policies and processes and we don’t hand wave away a greater impact on the poorer in the UK because they aren’t as poor as those in other countries.

Eh? The UN is literally a collection of the world's governments working towards various global objectives, of course it's political captured, but its politcal outlook mirrors the collective will of the members states.

The poorest are already being hit the hardest though and a central part of the whole net zero concept is the 'just transition' bit that seeks to ensure that the shift towards a net zero economy is fair and inclusive and addresses the expected social and economic impacts.

As someone married to a sustainabilty consultant (I'm surprised you think the solution here is to just carry on as normal and wait and see if the governments and businesses, who have ignored the issue for over 30 years, suddenly decide to implement equitable changes, especially as the timeframe for taking action to actually reduce the impacts is fast running out.

It's a bit like trying to lose a stone over a year. If you put it off until week 51 all your left with is drastic action.

And tbf the aviation industry aren't exactly leaders in this area, so I'm not surprised they'd try stuff like that. I remember listening to a speaker from the ICAO talking about the industry's net zero strategy at COP26, which essentially amounted to 'there's not much we can do unless someone develops a sustainable aviation fuel, but we want governments to fund that for us'.

The only useful thing about the view of the UN (or of some UN official) is what it tells us about the UN.

The UN has become so politically compromised that many just ignore it now.

That’s very enlightening. The conspiracy charges were very well proven; the conspiracy was very serious.

It was not just a case of hotheads boasting about causing trouble.

The law takes conspiracy to commit offences very seriously.

The discussion of sentencing in a lesser, similar case and of the appeal judgment in that case is also illuminating.

These people had a fair trial and received carefully considered sentencing.

No, not at all, i doubt anyone affected by the JSO protests will still be feeling the effects many years later.

I think the sentences are not in proportion.... all protest or indeed any public gathering can cause delays, so yes its awful someone missed a funeral but on that basis we would ban football matches, Cheltenham, music festivals and any form of protest as they can all cause someone to miss a very important appointment.

I would have financial penalties for illegal protest & that the punishment is laid out very clearly before hand.

Jailing people is extreme & should be reserved for violent offenders.

For the love of God, stop saying they’re “peaceful”. They aren’t. They’re actually pretty nasty individuals when you see any of them interviewed and they’re challenged on their conduct.

By all means support them if you like, but stop trying to pretend their actions are peaceful.

What you re in fact wanting and getting, is a Chinese system of punishment for protesting.

The sentences handed out to the JSO protestors are not too far away from what student protestors have got in HK.

The UN has also called these sentences utterly wrong.

Look, I’ve seen interviews with JSO about those ‘protests’ and when the harm it had caused to others, including the lady who missed the funeral of a close relative, was put to them, their response was ‘ of course that is very sad but this is a climate emergency and we have to take action’. We have seen this same thinking throughout this thread.

It is very hard for me to have sympathy with people who bat away the harm they have caused others with the justification of ‘climate emergency’ and yet are outraged at themselves facing the consequences of their own deliberate and chosen actions. Suddenly, ‘it’s worth it for the climate’ no longer seems to apply. That does seem enormously hypocritical. It’s worth for the environment if the consequence are on others, but not on them.

I mean this was only a few people out of what, 70 million, to use your previous argument. You were arguing that the numbers don’t matter if those affected are comparatively small compared to the UK population, so you surely you are unbothered by the tiny number of jailed JSO people?

Or are all people equal, but JSO ‘protestors’ are more equal than others?

Well worth reading the sentencing remarks before commenting and seeing what the protest was meant to do www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/R-v-Hallam-and-others.pdf

I’m glad that most marches understand it is sensible to liaise with the police before marching.

I know you are trying to pretend there is something sinister about this. But sensible people can see there is not.

I disagree vehemently. This is not an example of peaceful protest. This is a vile group who have cost people their lives. They have actively stopped emergency vehicles, ensured ill people did not get their timely and very necessary chemo and other treatments. Stopped loved ones being together during end of life. Caused massive disruption to those going about their day. Good on the judge. Absolutely jail these types of protesters every time. Meanwhile they pretend to care about climate change and wear nylon jackets, leave waste behind them etc. Horrible group of people.

Anyone cheering a 5 year jail sentence for someone peacefully protesting is imho, quite sick.

This is the sort of thing that just alienates people. Whatever reasonable point you had about the punishment handed out you’ve just lost. Of course it’s not “sick” to approve of five year prison sentences for people who cause serial disruption, frustration, anger and loss to thousands and thousands of people (leaving aside any physical harm) and cost god knows what in public money.

BTW, yes, I do think farmers or anyone else blocking roads should get the same treatment.

So don’t make it worse by hitting the poorer hardest in the process. Focus on the areas it has greatest impact. Personally I don’t see the point in one sided measures to restrict drilling for pike where the reality is it will just be imported instead. All that will happen is that they’ll pretend restrictive measures are to go ahead without working properly in tandem with actoons to mitigate the impact - the “we’re going to do this” will allow them to pretend they are taking action- then at the last minute they’ll say “ah, sorry, no” , again.

My DH is a sustainably consultant. He has recently flown to an airport to talk about sustainability and was asked to do the same again the other day - he didn’t go and when he joined the meeting remotely he said he probably wouldn’t even have been asked to contribute. That would have been eight hours flying for fuck all.