No more Protest

Well I sent them some money, plan to send more, and am now looking for ways to protest about climate change too .... so there's that

I’m not fooled and I’m watching closely. Disagreement with you / agreement with restriction on protest that impacts huge swathes of people not involved doesn’t mean I’m a fool. it may mean I read the legislation for myself and not just the media reports and have no doubt that as it is tested over time case law on the tests it has within it will be built up.

You can still protest. You just can’t block a major artery road system and expect to not have consequence. Rightly so.

You're graph only tells half a story, here's one that overlays atmospheric CO2 levels with average global temperatures.

Notice anything interesting about it? What do you think that massive spike in CO2 at the end is going to do?

And the issue has never been that all life is at risk, the issue is that the vast majority of life, include virtually all the flora, fauna, ecosystems and weather systems that humans have depended since homosapiens first emerged, have existed and evolved under conditions present in a atmosphere with 180ppm to 300ppm of CO2. Now that we're way outside that range and increasing it at an unprecedented rate we don't how they will react.

And it is unprecedented, while CO2 levels been higher it naturally takes hundreds of thousands to millions of years to do so. At present rates we'll hit the estimated peak in 400 years or so. The last time CO2 levels hit 420ppm the global average temperature was 3 degrees higher and sea levels around 15m. If those conditions reoccurred then its goodbye coastal communities and global food networks.

It's disingenuous to describe JSO actions as "peaceful", they were disruptive and weren't legal..

If anything JSO actions have damaged the perception of protesting and getting support for a "different point of view".

As a comparison, take the river sewage scandal, it's be come a major issue with huge support, and was all started with a private member bill.

I think the judge summed it up well

'You have appointed yourselves as the sole arbiters of what should be done about climate change, bound by neither the principles of democracy or the rule of law',

It's worth remembering there was a group of "activists" in Germany in 1924, who thought were justified in breaking the law and ignoring the democratic process.

Nine years later they were democratically elected in 1933, their leader was well known for his small moustache....

Mass disruption has always attracted long sentences. The public nuisance and economic damage is so great that the law and the courts rightly treat this sort of criminality as very serious.

I can’t see any difference in principle between the sort of disruption that JSO has caused and the sort of disruption that bomb hoaxers cause. In fact in terms of scale JSO’s actions are worse. The maximum sentence for bomb hoaxing is seven years.

There’s nothing new here.

I read some of the notes from court, they prevented a woman getting to a cancer appointment, she had to wait an extra 2 months to be able to access that appointment again. Protesting is one thing but they were preventing people from moving around, the consequences could be devastating for individuals.

@IllMetByMoonlight the rant displayed absolutely no ability to understand the law and what constitutes a defence. The judge described them as fanatics, and that seems correct to me.

If they know the law and the consequences then why are they whinging about the outcome?

If their purpose is to engage the wider public in concern about climate change it is failing dismally. They seem entitled and obsessive and not rational

I would fully support the jail for any groups protesting in this manner too. Peaceful protest is allowed, it happens daily.

But even if you don’t agree with the science it’s about the legislation in place that doesn’t allow protests which is a tenet of democracy! Why has this you try become so right wing. My parents went on marches in the 1960s and we had the Tuition fee marches late 90s, lots of marches which presumably we would be facing a prison sentence now. Common sense needs to come into this and 5 years is ridiculous!

They are pissing in the wind. Blocking traffic and causing all those vehicles to sit idling making pollution is hardly very helpful. Other countries using coal fired power plants are a lot worse go and protest there.
Our tiny country isn't really the big problem they would like us to think.

But don’t they do these things to get a reaction which could include jail time. I think a couple of them have had prison sentences before? So this sends us all a powerful message that they are willing to risk a long jail sentence for it. They are serious and mean it. If they just get a slap on the risk it looks more like a middle class hobbie. Now they have put their money where their mouth is. I dunno I thought this is what they would want??

These ridiculous claims that all life on earth is at risk. Our current temperatures are far, far, below the previous (completely natural) interglacial highs. Guess what - life is still here!

I'm really not convinced there is any 'emergency' or that we're really outside of any normal natural variation.

While they appear extreme, what exactly do you think WILL work given that most governments in the world are doing fuck all meaningful about climate change (and if ONE person whinges that “it’s not our fault China is doing it all” then I swear I will scream)

Yes, I’m sure Joe Biden would have them all murdered in cold blood right there on the street. Unfortunately there’s no way to know since right wing extremists never, ever engage in disruptive protests.

Except for that one time an armed mob of them stormed the seat of government itself with the stated intention of killing the Vice President, and government forces killed a grand total of…one person. Or the time they marched into the gallery of the Michigan state senate carrying AR-15 rifles, and were neither harmed nor arrested by anybody.

Only in your fevered imagination are right-wing thugs the persecuted party.

I agree with you.

5 years is ludicrous when so many violent offenders get less than this and that includes rapists and child abusers and at a time where prisons are already dangerously overcrowded.

The Conservatives put in place all these laws aiming to ban even peaceful protest simply to try to control the population and shut down anyone who did not agree with them.

The new government needs to look at this urgently.

The environment should be one of our biggest concerns.

It is shameful that we have water companies that have turned our rivers and seas into sewers while making millions for themselves and shareholders and they have faced no legal consequences whatsoever.

I really think this shows our priorities have gone badly wrong.

I don't agree with some of these people's method but I do agree with their cause.

I wonder if people commenting here would feel the same if women's were being locked up for protesting/marching against violence and sexual abuse...

if you remember the suffragettes, their protests were not always a quiet/peaceful matter. Protests against racism or for gay rights in the USA have also had to be disruptive during past decades for very good reasons.

People have short memories it seems and our freedom of speech is a fragile victory that we should treasure.

What are the lawful ways to protest now as I thought this was something the Conservatives introduced to stop the Striking?

I was shocked to hear that they received 5 year sentences, I thought the Gaols are full and people are being released early, plus I hoped the Labour party may look at as it does impact democracy.

YANBU but, I am looking forward to seeing the response from those celebrating this outcome the next time farmers or lorry drivers organise a rolling roadblock or women's rights or civil rights activists March on the capital

I definitely, 100%, totally sure they'll be demanding the organisers of those protests are handed lengthy jail sentences 👀.

Very true.

Imagine if they'd tried to disrupt/block Joe Biden when he travelled to a CLIMATE SUMMIT using five private planes and 85 cars.

How long would they have been imprisoned for then? Or maybe they would have received no jail time at all, as you have to still be alive to be imprisoned...

We have the ability to stage peaceful protests. There are rules however to ensure public safety. These rules include working with police and councils to plan your route or protest area. This group was deliberately choosing to deliver their protests in a way that would cause maximum disruption to bring attention to their cause. This could have led to minor or major impacts for many people. They were also (though not part of this case) attacking artwork. Other protestors targeted Stonehenge and vandalized the stones. Druids were not able to worship as they had planned as a result.

If there are lawful ways to protest and if people are choosing to organise forms of protest outside of the established rules designed to maximise disruption and impact on many people then should there be a consequence for this? And if the protests were about something different that you strongly didn't agree with; would you feel the same?

That is partly why they lost my support. Targeting electric public transport and places where people don't travel by car largely was the other reason.

You can support a cause without supporting those advocating it because of their methods.

I completely agree. I have no sympathy for the idiocy of JSO, but it's a very slippery slope when you start imprisoning people for planning crimes - or even maybe being suspected of planning crimes.

GoldFrame ^"I’ve read RHs lengthy description of the court case and don’t think he helped himself there either.

The fact that they all ended up representing themselves is telling. It is likely that they did not listen to legal advice"^

Just to add: avoiding arrest and prison has never been a primary concern of climate activism in the XR or JSO tradition (see peaceful mass arrests of early XR marches). That's not the point. There is an acceptance of that aspect of the rule of law. But it is deemed that the consequences of not acting will be worse, so therefore civil disobedience is carried out, in full knowledge of the likely consequences. It should also be noted that other judgements have been passed which have found in favour of protesters on these grounds.

This is one of the reasons there should never be a vote on whether we leave the European Court of Human Rights. There are far too many people who are distracted by jingling keys to notice what’s really going on.

For example, the test case will be a wife beating, ugly, drug dealing terrorist foreigner, who’s used ECHR to stay in UK. Many people would back the removal of ECHR law to remove him, not realising they’ve also agreed to remove very important rights for themselves as Humans.

I know people hate JSO, but looks at what this means in perspective. If people planned to block roads in protest at the issue of SEN support, the poor maintenance of school buildings, or the state of the NHS, police misogyny or a new Poll Tax, they could also face a 5 year sentence.

Sashh, I think you will find that many climate protesters have much of the kind of activism you suggest under their belts too, including more traditional 'writing to your MP' and 'signing a petition' undertakings.