Insomniacs and ex-insomniacs - where are you?!

Read 'The effortless sleep method' by Sasha stephens . It changed my life! You have to follow what she says but basically it's about changing your thinking about sleeping .

@Shodan I relate to that only too well! “Have you tried lavender on your pillow” “have a warm milky drink” “no screens” “no caffeine after 12pm” “insomnia won’t kill you” “have you tried yoga?”

Things have been much better for me for 7 years due to Mirtazapine, but if I hear any of those phrases now it takes me right back to murderous rage!

I literally wanted to kill anyone who mentioned “sleep hygiene” by the end.

😂This reminds me of when I visited the doctor, years ago, to get another prescription of Zopiclone. My regular doctor knew my issues, and knew well that I'd only give in and ask for Zopiclone when I was at the end of my tether (usually after 2 weeks or so of little or no sleep.) Unfortunately he wasn't in, so I saw a locum- and she asked me if I'd tried a lavender pillow... Only my good manners stopped me from throttling her in a sleep-deprived rage.

I take 24mg of melatonin e dry single night. It would knock most people out, but I sleep much better now. They will take it from my cold dead hand before I stop.

I tried everything. Absolutely everything. In the end, I got so sick of everyone with their “well meaning” advice. Insomnia was ruining my life.

And then I FINALLY was prescribed Mirtazapine. Bloody love the stuff, you’d have to pry it out of my dead hands now. I’ve been on it for 7 years, and I now sleep like a normal person, and my life has improved 100%.

I truly believe that for some people, insomnia is so bad, that only the drugs work. I literally wanted to kill anyone who mentioned “sleep hygiene” by the end.

Have you tracked your insomnia? I found it correlated with a couple of things 1) my hormonal cycle, esp ovulation 2) any kind of fight or flight emotion even putting a bid on eBay, or watching a tense movie 3) histamine which I have become sensitive to as I have aged, it’s naturally wakeful and now I eat a lot less.

I still get insomnia sometimes but now I know why it’s a bit easier to deal. Less evening excitement and histamine have genuinely cut down episodes. Good luck, it is hell and so hard to describe to others when it’s been going on a long time.

I'm here. It's 12:40 am where I am now.

I was going to say I find progesterone helps my sleep enormously- I'm only awake now cos I overheated sleeping deeply in a thick duvet... I was on Utrogesten now it's Gerpetrex - no idea why brand changed but it seems the same

I used to differ from terrible insomnia and do so from a young age (12 or so). It was debilitating. Now i sleep the best I ever have (now 50). The things i do are:

• only two cups of tea before 11am and no caffeine afterwards.
• run 4 times a week (currently training for an ultra marathon so weekly mileage about 52km). I also train for triathlons so bike and swimming too depending on where I am in the season.
• completely cut back on alcohol to maybe a few beers a week. No wine, that definitely means no sleep for me.
• magnesium powder every night.
• magnesium oil spray on my legs and tummy every night.
• sleep mask.
• ear plugs.

Sometimes I regress and then I look at melatonin. If it's a bad phase then I see my doctor and have a months supply of temazipam which I keep for emergency. That's about once a year or so.

So, lots of exercise. No booze and dark/quiet. Serious game changer for me in terms of sleep!! But I love running so it's easy.

I use sleeping pills but I'm not doing well at the moment. I still fall asleep and wake up at unreasonable times. I take 2 tablets at the moment and have been sleepwalking

I'm only awake now because of the cat!

Audiobooks definitely work for me, in fact, I stopped listening to new ones at bedtime because I would always conk out and lose my place!

Sending you sleepy vibes OP. Is there any chance you could get signed off for a couple of weeks go remove the anxiety about sleeping?

Mirtazapine! I have gone from 3 hours of broken hell sleep to 8/9 hours totally deep sleep. It is a miracle!

As @PurpleBugz says, I have given up trying to confirm to a modern societal expectation of when I should sleep.

I was getting very stressed about not being able to sleep and dragging myself out of bed at 'normal' getting up time and then I heard a lecture by a sleep historian who said the idea of going to bed in the evening and sleeping until the morning is a modern one and in the past people went to bed much earlier (I could easily fall asleep at around 7pm) and then woke up around midnight and did more jobs/work/had sex and then went back to sleep a few hours later. This was a revelation to me as I am wide awake between 1am and 5am and then I can sleep like a log until 10-11am.

So now whenever I can I do that (fortunately my job allows me to be flexible a lot of the time) and if I have to get up at say 7am for an early (normal!) start I just don't go to bed.

My father was the same. I have just stopped worrying about it and fortunately my children are adults so can take care of themselves. It does mean I am generally going to bed around the time my husband is getting up but we manage.

I also find audio books are a great help to relax me and put me to sleep when I am ready. I just don't think my body produces melatonin at what we now consider 'normal' sleeping times! But I have let go of the guilt of being 'lazy' lying in bed in the mornings and most of my colleagues know I work in the middle of the night!

The only thing that really worked for me longer term was sleep restriction therapy, where you limit your sleep, always get up at the same time and gradually increase your time in bed as your sleeping improves. Some info here: https://www.sleepfoundation.org/insomnia/treatment/sleep-restriction-therapy

Can you sleep in in the morning? I function on very little sleep but could sleep in in morning if I didn't have responsibilities. Every 2 ish weeks I basically sleep through a Saturday. Do you have someone to take baby/child out the house and let you sleep?

For actually getting to sleep (other than meds) I swear by an audiobook. One you like and a story you have heard before. Nothing new and exciting you will be drawn into. I listen to the same books over and over and just push play when I wake in the night I don't need to rewind to find my place etc. Podcasts work too or music if it keeps your attention and draws you from your own thoughts. But I think it's essential that you can sit in that half awake half asleep phase we spend hours in before we actually drift off and not plane pulled back to wakefulness because you have lost track of the story if that makes sense.

I also think the sleep hygiene stuff is a load of crap for some people. I brush my teeth early evening as that disgusting mint taste wakes me up. Showers and baths wake me up. Or rather the drying and getting dressed does. I literally strip my jeans off and get into bed with an audiobook no faf no routine and it's not ideal but better than when I do the whole sleep hygiene

Melatonin only thing that really works. All the other tips never worked- I wasted years on other nonsense.

I've never slept a full night in my adult life. Tried everything, but it's so bad at the moment I'm signed off work. I'm hoping to start hrt soon
I've also ordered melatonin...
OP, have you considered that you may have ADHD/ADD ?? MY GP thinks I probably have it. However, there's a ridiculous waiting list to be assessed for it. All the private clinics in my area have closed their waiting lists. It's so frustrating. If you have a diagnosis then you can get melatonin on prescription, without a diagnosis, you can't. I just want to sleep 😴 it's exhausting just being exhausted all the time .

My insomnia comes in waves but started as a teen where I'd be awake until 2 or 3am unable to sleep.

Now I listen to educational audio books. That way I either learn something (yay!) Or it's so dull I fall asleep (yay) which is a win win situation.

By biggest issue is waking up again at around 4am and unable to sleep. Not found anything that helps other than breaking the cycle if I can't go back to sleep after 30 mins. Or I turn audiobook back on but that annoys my DH!

Kirkland's Sleep Aid and/or Melatonin. Worked for me.
I had chronic, hideous insomnia at the start of peri. It was terrible. Going on antidepressants and HRT cured it.

Another one to recommend Kirkland Sleep Aid (an antihistamine). I take a whole one and am not aware of long term side effects (certainly no worse than the long-term side effects of not sleeping!) Like you I am a long time insomniac. The Kirkland helps though. Sending empathy!

One other thing I'm sure you must've tried is getting in sunlight as soon as waking up.. easy in summer when I can have my coffee in garden, not easy in winter. Supposed to set the body clock. Who knows.

That's interesting, thanks. I've tried not taking the melatonin but usually give in after an hour or so, then I drop off. Possibly placebo effect however!

I have never slept well but have truly had insomnia for about 25 years. I sympathise with everyone in the same boat, it is soul destroying. I am worried about all the long term effects of not sleeping, but most of all I worry about Dementia. Both my parents have Dementia and I have witnessed over the years what a cruel and destructive disease it is.
No matter what I try, I have difficulty falling asleep and I wake numerous times throughout the night, sometimes for one or two hours, which means that I often only have between two & three hours a night.
I have been prescribed Phenergan and Lorazepam but both of these are linked to Dementia (and many other unpleasant side effects in long term use) and I realised that they had stopped working for me after a while anyway. I have tried every single thing that has been suggested to me or that I have read about, from acupuncture to zen buddhist meditation, including hypnotherapy, eating walnuts and kiwis, CBD, vitamins, essential oils and so on.
I am currently taking Magnesium glycinate and Montmorency cherry capsules, which did seem to make a small difference, but my dad is close to the end of his life and receiving hospice at home care, which is sad and stressful, so that may be working against the remedies.
Someone did once say to me that if you ask someone with no sleep problems how they sleep well, they just shrug and say they don't really think about it but if you ask an insomniac then they will list every remedy and trick in the book. I think that previous posters may have hit the nail on the head by suggesting that we abandon all of the sleep hygiene routines, self hypnosis, sounds of the sea cds, essential oils, vitamins, fruits and nuts etc because so much focus may actually be a self fulfilling prophesy? Incidentally, if I listen to a guided sleep meditation during the day, I can fall asleep in minutes but if I listen at night then I am wide awake the whole way through 🙄