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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not understand why my mum ( or anyone ) needs to sunbathe topless ?

290 replies

aghak · 19/07/2024 09:24

I'm staying with mum and my two kids at a holiday cottage. It's private so no one can see, but I still don't get why she or anyone feels the need to sunbathe topless ? I would just never do it and it makes me a bit uncomfortable to be around people who sunbathe topless.

I get it I get it, not everyone is like me.

But why do your boobs need to be brown ?

She also insists on wearing a bikini at almost 70. Ok fine, I don't wear a bikini and I'm not even 40 yet. I do think, good for you but I do think one pieces are just more classy. Same with having everything on display.

I realise I sound mean spirited don't I ? Or just uptight ? But isn't more, less and more classy in general ? Interested in opinions !

She raised me so I'm surprised I am not more on display myself but I'm pretty private about my body and always have been.

OP posts:
parkrun500club · 19/07/2024 19:21

And there was me thinking that skin cancer was a thing.

Oh well.

I don't think you are prudish or uptight OP. Breasts should be covered up. It's really not good for your nipples to get sunburnt, and even if you are older and think it's too late anyway, do you really want to make it even more likely that you're going to need treatment for skin cancer or sun-related lesions at least?

I don't think men should expose their pot bellies either!

Bumblebeestiltskin · 19/07/2024 19:20

aghak · 19/07/2024 09:31

Well I mean I don't love it as a spectator tbh. I'm not sure my kids need to see it either but they're still small. But I think as they get older I may have to rethink or am I just being uptight and silly ?

It's just not something I want to do myself and I'm not sure I want my kids to see.

You're being uptight and silly

LindorDoubleChoc · 19/07/2024 19:18

TheWoodlanders · 19/07/2024 17:00

This exactly and I think that that generation associate it with sophisticated continental behaviour because they saw it on holiday (or heard about it) a few decades ago.

In fact, it’s gone out of fashion on the continent more recently. Far fewer young French people sunbathe topless than their parents and grandparents.

I’m not keen on topless sunbathing at any adult age. I think it’s ageist to say there should be a cut off point. IMO public nakedness or toplessness is one of those postwar things that women were persuaded to do in the name of being liberated and sophisticated or ‘natural’. Women’s bodies have been ogled and objectified for far too long to make public toplessness innocent.

And anyway. The sun is far stronger now and we know much more about how damaging it is.

I agree completely. A pp told me that I was wrong to have seen far fewer topless women on the beaches of Europe in the last 10 to 20 years than I did when i was younger. I don't know how she knows I'm wrong, it's a bit odd.

I'm in my 60s and wouldn't dream of going topless infront of my children or anyone else, although I might have many years ago. And it's not to do with how my body looks, it's to do with how times have changed and being mindful that my children and grandchildren might prefer not to see it!

OhmygodDont · 19/07/2024 19:11

I ponder to Africans have high incidence of skin cancer or is their something medically scientific about their dna make up.

I ask not to demean or be horrible but obviously we have all seen those water adverts the school Christmas boxes. I doubt many people in those parts of their countries are applying mass quantities of sun cream or covering up or keeping out of the sun when it comes to harvesting or fetching water and such.

missshilling · 19/07/2024 19:08

MotherofPearl · 19/07/2024 18:36

The thing I find astonishing is not the topless bit but the sunbathing bit. Not just OP's mother, but loads of posters mentioning that they sunbathe. It's almost like they've not heard of skin cancer. Insanity. To say nothing of the wrinkles. Shock

Surely you can't find it that astonishing given the massive mumbers of people from all over northern Europe that flock to warmer countries and spend a week or two toasting themselves in the sun. Whole economies are based on it.

OhmygodDont · 19/07/2024 19:03

I use suncream when I sunbathe and well on any sunny days. Higher factor on the ole nipples mind 😅

I don’t sunbathe for hours on end though trying to turn into leather more a ahhh this is nice to be out here in the sun. Might go back in after 30 minutes then pop back out in a bit.

MotherofPearl · 19/07/2024 18:54

No suncreams block out all of the harmful UVB and UVA rays @SoupDragon.

Evaka · 19/07/2024 18:53

I love a topless sunbathe. It's weird how quickly it feels normal. And DP and I had a lovely swim on a nude beach last year. He was nervous at first but loved the freedom. It's not sexual unless someone makes it so!

SoupDragon · 19/07/2024 18:41

MotherofPearl · 19/07/2024 18:36

The thing I find astonishing is not the topless bit but the sunbathing bit. Not just OP's mother, but loads of posters mentioning that they sunbathe. It's almost like they've not heard of skin cancer. Insanity. To say nothing of the wrinkles. Shock

Have you never heard of sunscreen?

MotherofPearl · 19/07/2024 18:36

The thing I find astonishing is not the topless bit but the sunbathing bit. Not just OP's mother, but loads of posters mentioning that they sunbathe. It's almost like they've not heard of skin cancer. Insanity. To say nothing of the wrinkles. Shock

OneTwoTen · 19/07/2024 18:30

*I find what you write interesting. I'm not sure if you intended your aggressive tone?

Given that I SPECIFICALLY wrote about private saunas, in family homes, it's interesting that you jumped from my post straight into an anecdote about public saunas being problematic.

In the context of this thread and beyond, I think that "prudishness" can often be an innocent-seeming cover for actually quite repressive, obsessive, shaming and ultimately damaging thinking, where normal human bodies are coupled with sexual perversion and things which are taboo.

And looking at this from a population level, that damaging "prudishness" might possibly be part of why so many men in this country are susceptible to following online rabbit-holes that lead to CSA content... Maybe they're following the thrill of the taboo, that starts with something as normal as naked boobs, and ends up with terrible violence and harm?

It's my hunch that if it were more normal to hang out with naked friends, mums, aunties and grannies, and to find naked human bodies no big deal, then possibly we'd be in a much healthier place, sexually, as a culture.*

I don't feel aggressive about it. But I do bump up against the insidious shaming and chilling effect that language like 'prudishness' and 'repression' is intended to have on people who are asking totally reasonable questions about where the line should be when adults are getting naked with children.

I used a public sauna as an example in my last post. But here's a private one for you; a good friend of mine at university grew up with nudist parents - one of whom wasn't his biological parent. It utterly fucked him up for life. We lost touch a few years ago but last I heard of him, he was still in therapy and had just broken off his third engagement because of his inability to have a healthy relationship due to sex addiction.

Granted that's only one piece of anec-data but it does challenge your assertion that de-sexualised nakedness as a part of daily domestic life would prevent later perversion or issues.

Personally, I think that liberalism (and 'cultural norms') can often be a cover for at best, inappropriate and at worst, criminal behaviour.

My children are 8 and 10 and already instinctively want privacy from me, and also give me privacy. If they walk into my room as I'm dressing, they walk back out again and ask when they can come in. I haven't enforced this, it's something they have just started doing themselves. (I actually rarely close bedroom or bathroom doors in our house because we have Siamese cats and they complain loudly whenever they can't get in!)

Natural shame is a protective emotion. It helps keep us safe. It is too often confused with toxic shame. But they are not the same. One is necessary, the other is corrosive.

Subverting the instinct to feel natural shame in service to liberalism can be very uncomfortable, and even traumatising. I can imagine the dissonance experienced by a child wanting to put their own boundaries around their privacy but who also wants to please their parents by taking part in 'family nudity', for example.

All discourse around this topic on this thread has focussed entirely on what the adults feel they would be okay with (or think they ought to be okay with). Bolstered by odd and unsubstantiated arguments that it's 'healthy' or even necessary to know what adult naked bodies look like. Given that every single body is completely unique, I'm not sure what general conclusions are supposed to be drawn from knowing that mum's labia minora stick out and auntie Janet's don't.

I'm afraid I simply don't believe that children want to be naked with their parents - or any other adults, for that matter - after the age of about 8 or 9.

Speaking plainly, I would definitely have concerns about a family who regularly got naked together with children beyond pre-teen age. And I think most other people would too, if they're honest. Whether you're from Berlin, Malmö, or Stoke-on-Trent.

In the OP's situation, I think her mother is being very inappropriate not to consider how her grandchildren might feel about seeing her in just a pair of bikini knickers.

I get that this might make you defensive, because you're probably quite emotionally invested in the idea of co-opting some sort of quirky, novel bit of Scandinavian 'culture' to scaffold your idea of yourself as progressive and position yourself in opposition to uptight Britishness.

But I simply don't see it the same way. Perhaps I'm too cynical. Or maybe I'm just realistic.

Comtesse · 19/07/2024 18:14

I can’t believe you are being so uptight about this. It’s close family and you’re somewhere quiet. I cannot believe it bothers you so much. Yabu.

CaliforniaChill · 19/07/2024 17:58

I suppose live and let live.
I wouldn’t do it in front of my DC and DGC.
I suppose it’s how we decide to age. Your mum may feel, sod it I’ll do what I like.
Me personally, I’ll be 55 soon and I’d like to grow old gracefully, and look elegant and polished, which means covering up a bit more rather than showing off my boobs like I used to do when younger.

CatamaranViper · 19/07/2024 17:51

YankSplaining · 19/07/2024 17:37

“Were you rubbing your thighs and saying "phwaaa" as you typed it?”

I’m the one who’s being honest about having an involuntary reaction to (mostly hypothetical) bare breasts and then feeling uncomfortable. You’re the one imagining a specific woman rubbing her thighs and then posting about it online, in public and directed to that woman.

And I’m supposed to be the creepy one here?

Done with this conversation. Goodbye.

Bahahahaha nice attempt at diverting there. Off you jog then, try not to fall over your own jaw next time you fantasise about a fictitious woman's boobs.

aghak · 19/07/2024 17:49

It's not just breast bless her..

She often just walks around in a thong.

I just can't imagine ever doing that. I don't know how we are so different !

OP posts:
Simonjt · 19/07/2024 17:48

Halfheadhighlights · 19/07/2024 17:47

I couldn’t stand burnt nipples, ouch

Can you not but suncream where you live?

Halfheadhighlights · 19/07/2024 17:47

I couldn’t stand burnt nipples, ouch

missmollygreen · 19/07/2024 17:47

aghak · 19/07/2024 09:31

Well I mean I don't love it as a spectator tbh. I'm not sure my kids need to see it either but they're still small. But I think as they get older I may have to rethink or am I just being uptight and silly ?

It's just not something I want to do myself and I'm not sure I want my kids to see.

What is it about breasts you find offensive?

LlynTegid · 19/07/2024 17:46

I don't think whether you visit a sauna, an enclosed space, with or without swimwear, has an equivalence to topless sunbathing. Other maybe than comfort.

Simonjt · 19/07/2024 17:45

WoolyMammoth55 · 19/07/2024 16:04

Hi OP, my husband is Scandinavian and over there many (most?) houses have a family sauna, where it's considered unhygienic to wear any swimwear.

It's basically the culture to have multiple generations of family, plus often friends, sit around naked and chat with each other while sweating profusely!

Just from my knowledge of his family (admittedly a limited dataset!) they have very positive attitudes to health and wellness, high body confidence, and are very relaxed about nudity - it's not very coupled to sex and is more part of normal daily life.

I personally think it's healthy for kids to see their parents and grandparents naked and what normal human bodies look like. Especially with the epidemic of exposure to porn and the surgically altered women's bodies that are 'normal' there.

I'm sorry that it makes you uncomfortable though.

Edited

We live in Scandinavia and have a sauna, they’re a very social thing here, so it isn’t unusual for my husband to invite his mates round for football, beer and sauna. But yeah, always budgies not allowed, but people can keep their towel on if they want to, no naked bums on our benches apart from our own thank you very much.

NighttimeNightmare · 19/07/2024 17:44

OneTwoTen · 19/07/2024 17:10

And I’m not a nudist either but if other people
enjoy it and are comfortable then it’s not my place to tell them they can’t engage in that. The benefits for them personally are their business.

I guess people enjoy and are comfortable with it until they aren't. And then enforcing boundaries is not possible in that context, which is a problem.

As a woman and a mother, I do feel that the reasons why a male stranger might want to be naked around women and children is my business, actually.

I don’t know much about the nudist world except what one of my close friends tells me.

According to her there are no children. Everyone joins with their consent. You don’t HAVE to be naked. You take your clothes off to whatever degree you like at your own choice. There is nothing sexual. She says she finds a freedom, confidence and community she hasn’t found elsewhere.

No, it is absolutely not my business to tell her that is wrong. I presume the men join for the same reason as she does - for whatever reason, being naked makes them happy. Maybe it is sexual for some? I don’t know. But people choosing to be naked in their own time in private spaces is not my business whatsoever. I suppose in that instance if you are no longer comfortable then you leave but I have never asked about safety - I would hope they have things in place.

I did not post about the nude saunas and spas and I have never been to one. I would attend one out of curiosity but I would never take my kids, that’s my personal feelings on it.

WoolyMammoth55 · 19/07/2024 17:40

OneTwoTen · 19/07/2024 16:20

That just sounds like a safeguarding nightmare to me.

My friend used to live in a Scandinavian country and she often used the public naked saunas. She said there had been numerous times when she'd been made to feel uncomfortable by men staring at her and following her around the spa.

I just think if you were a raging fucking pervert who got a thrill from looking at naked women and making them feel violated, a public naked sauna is the first place I'd go! Seems like a no-brainer to me.

But pointing out that legitimising and normalising spaces where men, women and children are naked together seems like a situation that's wide open to abuse makes you 'prudish' apparently.

@OneTwoTen I find what you write interesting. I'm not sure if you intended your aggressive tone?

Given that I SPECIFICALLY wrote about private saunas, in family homes, it's interesting that you jumped from my post straight into an anecdote about public saunas being problematic.

In the context of this thread and beyond, I think that "prudishness" can often be an innocent-seeming cover for actually quite repressive, obsessive, shaming and ultimately damaging thinking, where normal human bodies are coupled with sexual perversion and things which are taboo.

And looking at this from a population level, that damaging "prudishness" might possibly be part of why so many men in this country are susceptible to following online rabbit-holes that lead to CSA content... Maybe they're following the thrill of the taboo, that starts with something as normal as naked boobs, and ends up with terrible violence and harm?

It's my hunch that if it were more normal to hang out with naked friends, mums, aunties and grannies, and to find naked human bodies no big deal, then possibly we'd be in a much healthier place, sexually, as a culture.

namechangetheworld · 19/07/2024 17:38

RaininSummer · 19/07/2024 09:32

Not really the thing to get your baps out in front of the grandchildren but otherwise I admire her attitude.

What attitude do you admire, the one where she doesn't have enough regard for her own daughter and grandchildren to prevent them feeling uncomfortable?

YankSplaining · 19/07/2024 17:37

CatamaranViper · 19/07/2024 17:25

Sexual attraction to another (adult, unrelated) person is not creepy. I have never said it is.
I've said you are creepy with your weird description of seeing boobs in the wild. Your last statement in your original post I quoted added nothing other than to undermine any valid points you may have had.

Were you rubbing your thighs and saying "phwaaa" as you typed it? Honestly it's like a caricature of a pervy man (Herb from Family guy springs to mind)

“Were you rubbing your thighs and saying "phwaaa" as you typed it?”

I’m the one who’s being honest about having an involuntary reaction to (mostly hypothetical) bare breasts and then feeling uncomfortable. You’re the one imagining a specific woman rubbing her thighs and then posting about it online, in public and directed to that woman.

And I’m supposed to be the creepy one here?

Done with this conversation. Goodbye.

LesFlamandes · 19/07/2024 17:33

When I visit my mum’s home village in Provence, I love seeing ladies of all ages in their bikinis or sunbathing topless at the local lake beach. Bikinis are de rigeur down there, no one wears a one piece. It’s a lovely thing to do in the sunshine.

I sunbathe topless with my mum every year, she’s 70, I’m 46. DD15 will I probably join us, she’s just bought a super bikini for her visit.

It’s really no big deal. I can’t bear the prudish Anglo Saxon attitudes about this (it was even worse when we lived in Massachusetts when I was often the only bikini wearer on the beach)

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